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Thread: Are TMOs Ruining Things

      
  1. #1

    Referees in Scotland


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    Default Are TMOs Ruining Things

    Having watched Scotland v Fiji and England v NZ, as both a referee and a fan I'm left concerned by the role of TMOs. My concern is that it the person in a studio not on the field that is making decisions on an inconsistent basis. Park my partisan head in the Scotland referrals and lets look at the Courtney Lawes decision. If he was offside and he was, then pretty much every breakdown could have been called for the same offence; let along the lack of binding, players going off their feet etc. etc.

    For me the TMO role is becoming too invasive - I prefer the on-field ref to get it right/wrong and let the TMO deal with citing type isues.Today, I rather depressingly observed someone in a studio undermine the referee.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    I agree with that completely ...

    Certainly according to the law, Laws was offside, but no more than was tolerated for both teams at every other breakdown in the game.

    JG was also right in front of the breakdown looking at Laws - he didn’t miss it, he thought it was fine in accordance with the standard he’d set all game. I’d say he was surprised with the TMO’s call.

    ( I am partisan)

  3. #3
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    Put everything back in the refs hands, if sir is unsure about something after a try is scored then sure, let him check, but otherwise play on, he/she already has AR’s to assist, so only go to the TMO if doubt on pitch. Only exception I would give is ‘check,check’ for foul play.

    Everything else will be picked apart in anger longer after the game is over regardless, so let’s make the game the best it can be.

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    I’m fine with TMO/AR for things the ref didn’t see (or asks for help with).

    I don’t think either should offer an alternative view/interpretation on something the ref did see.

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    Rugby Club Member Pedro's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    I think it’s a fine line, but in the SCOvFIJ match, the TMO made two great calls which the on field ref missed (one of which he really should have called himself- he was in a great position and just missed the obstruction as far as I could tell).

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    I'm fine with the ref asking for a TMO view where they have doubts at a score (provided it isn't for every score) but not for things the ref may have missed . My rationale is that, as refs we all miss things all of the time; every oversight could have consequences, so interuptions should not be reserved just for scores. Any dangerous/foul play should be picked up for citing. Also based upon today's viewing there are significant differences between TMO interuptions

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    THe thing ablut the Lawes insident was that it was 100% Material. Yes other players may well have been ofside at almost every other ruck (and England pretty much tested the back foot to the limit) many of these offside were not material. Not only was Laws offside but he was the player who made the chargedown. That must be material.


    But, yes the TMO is a very flawed system and needs to be reviewed

  8. #8

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    Without answering your question directly, I would say TMOs are not going away anytime soon.
    I think the wording of the LotG needs to be tightened up and by the same token the wording of questions put to the TMO.
    The classic one being «*Is there any reason why I cannot award the try?*»
    However if that question isn’t put to the TMO, if the man in the middle asks can you see a clear and obvious grounding. WTF? Where did they get that from? Clear and obvious has been use in relation to foul play in the past.
    In the Ire v Arg game, CJ Stander was denied an early try by the TMO as he was unlucky enough to be buried under a pile of bodies. Yet there was no reason to suspect that he had been held up.

    We need clarity about the role of TMOs and the limits of that role. We need set questions that can be put to this match official. I agree flawed is a good word to sum up the present TMO role.

    Question: Do you need to see the ball grounded before awarding a try?
    Or does the absence of any reason not to award the try suffice?
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 10-11-18 at 22:11.
    There are more ways of killing a dog than choking it with butter.

  9. #9

    Referees in Australia
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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    that decision didn't pass the C & O test for me. Try should have stood.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #10
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Are TMOs Ruining Things

    Are we not from today in the midst of a TMO protocol trial? From which I quote;

    The TMO may be used when the referee requires confirmation with regard to the scoring of a try. Decisions relating to in-goal should be an on-field decision for which the Referee is responsible. The Referee may use his team of 4 to contribute where there is conclusive evidence which will inform the Referee’s ultimate decision.
    Did that happen in the England game? Specifically the disallowed try? Pretty sure the TMO made the decision, not the ref? Also I thought they had to follow the Southern Hemisphere protocol where the ref declared an on field decision and then the TMO offers any C&O reasons to change it, was that the case?

    More details at https://rugbyreferee.net/wp-content/...Matches_EN.pdf but it didn’t seem like a different protocol to me?

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