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Thread: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Warren View Post
    His aim was to ground the ball - he achieved that aim as he intended - how has he lost control?
    the Law doesn't mention control - the Law says he has to be holding it. Was he holding it?

    Here's Nigel Owens explaining it a few weeks ago



    So now as well as NO's comments, we also have a TMO decision entirely in line with Nigel's logic and phrasing..

    ..I'd conclude that both of them have read a guideline.

  2. #12
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    You can see his fingers bending as he presses the ball down, so that solves for (b) does it not? Or is the argument that he lost possession before pushing it down? As I can’t clearly see that on the twitter clip?

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    the Law doesn't mention control - the Law says he has to be holding it. Was he holding it?

    Here's Nigel Owens explaining it a few weeks ago



    So now as well as NO's comments, we also have a TMO decision entirely in line with Nigel's logic and phrasing..

    ..I'd conclude that both of them have read a guideline.
    Well he was holding it, didn’t let go of it and then touched it down. There was no knock on, no drop, no fumble.

    For me that’s an excellent bit of skill that hasn’t been rewarded. I’d given the try

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    You can see his fingers bending as he presses the ball down, so that solves for (b) does it not? Or is the argument that he lost possession before pushing it down? As I can’t clearly see that on the twitter clip?
    He is holding the ball with one hand, and as he reaches he gradually loses his grip on it - however he maintains continuous contact with the ball all the way to the ground.

    At the moment the ball hits the ground the contact is just the tips of the fingers.

    I think that
    - he definitely was NOT holding the ball
    - it's possible to argue he pressed down on it - by a fingertip - so hardly a press, but arguable.

    However (b) is - we are told - interpreted to apply to a loose ball on the ground, not a ball being carried.


    Quote Originally Posted by Toby Warren View Post
    Well he was holding it, didn’t let go of it and then touched it down. There was no knock on, no drop, no fumble.
    For me that’s an excellent bit of skill that hasn’t been rewarded. I’d given the try
    @Toby - yes so would I a few weeks ago. Now, given Nigel's guidance (which for that show is pre-prepared, it's not off the cuff) and now this TMO's decision, I am changing my mind - I think they need to be holding the ball

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    If there is guidance, i’d need to see it first hand, in my world, with one glance, that’s a try

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    If there is guidance, i’d need to see it first hand, in my world, with one glance, that’s a try
    Based on .. it meets (b)

    I think by the Law Book you are correct

  7. #17

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    I have watched the replay multiple times and still believe that the TMO was wrong. The player never lost control.

    This potentially opens a complete can of worms, since we have accepted that the player juggling the ball is deemed to be 'in control' and therefore can be tackled; so how is this different?
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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    using the KISS mentality, i liked the simplicity of you're holding it up until the point you're no longer in contact with the ball (subject of course to holding it "properly" in the first instance).

    if an element of control is now required, it's going to hugely complicate things when i need to explain to one-eyed fans in the pub on a saturday afternoon!
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  9. #19

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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    Quote Originally Posted by beckett50 View Post
    we have accepted that the player juggling the ball is deemed to be 'in control' and therefore can be tackled; so how is this different?
    Technically he is deemed to be "in possession".

    In this case, unless contact with the ball is lost, I would expect a try to be awarded.
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    Default Re: Control , again .. Leicester v Gloucester

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Technically he is deemed to be "in possession".

    In this case, unless contact with the ball is lost, I would expect a try to be awarded.
    The law mentions neither possession nor control
    The law says you have to be holding the ball.

    Although I do see the argument that the 2019 Law book allows pressing as well

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