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Thread: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

      
  1. #251
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    So what you're saying is someone like LRZ can run at full speed and stop immediately? The point is if you're running at full speed, one can't stop or change direction immediately. You need either space to significantly change direction or you need to slow down to significantly change direction. The act of causing a collision when you're running a speed is dangerous to both the tackler and the ball carrier. Meaning that as a ball carrier if you go into contact at speed, this could be argued to be a contravention to Law 9.11.

    I'm not suggesting for a minute it is, I'm pointing out that there is a disparity between the force that you're saying a tackler can hit compared to the force that a ball carrier can hit with. If as a ball carrier you run into contact and the tackler gets knocked 5 meters backwards, "we" applaud it. This is essentially what's happened in both the original School boy video and the Ryno video, but with the opposite. We're talking that there's something wrong with both of them. But yet if the big fellas had the ball and ran into the smaller players, with the ball then not an eye lid will have been batted. But both are equally "dangerous" but one we're vilifying and one get actively encouraged.

    So if we're going to be penalising tacklers for hitting too hard, we need to do the same with ball carriers. Personally, I think its totally ridiculous to do that but it unfair to say that a BC can hit a tackler without limits (within the normal caveats of not leading with the elbow etc) but in the next breath limiting how hard a tackler can hit because it dangerous. BOTH acts are inherently dangerous, so if you clamp down on one, you need to clamp down on the other (under Law 9.11)

  2. #252

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    I like some of the arguments you are making Arabcheif, I just don’t think they apply in this instance. It was a dangerous ‘tackle’. For me it was more akin to a shoulder charge than a tackle. I didn’t see any clear wrap, it was dangerous therefore worthy of a RC.

  3. #253
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    You're the one that introduced the ball carrier, and I'm pretty sure they shouldn't be 'hitting' anyone, a ball carrier can hand off an opponent, but even then that must be without 'excessive force' as defined in law, but again, ignoring that specific, stand alone law, if a ball carrier does anything, or the sum of all their actions (in exactly the same way as the tackler here) does anything that's deemed dangerous then the same law applies. Find me an example of a ball carrier performing an act as dangerous as the tackler here and I'll tell you what my reaction would be.

    Dangerous is dangerous, it's the catch all law that allows us to be sensible, and sanction dangerous play - whoever you are.

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    I like some of the arguments you are making Arabcheif, I just don’t think they apply in this instance. It was a dangerous ‘tackle’. For me it was more akin to a shoulder charge than a tackle. I didn’t see any clear wrap, it was dangerous therefore worthy of a RC.

    That's fair enough, I've seen folks saying they seen a wrap, personally I'm not so sure about that. But the issue that most on the forum seem to have is either the timing or force used. I've no issue with either of those. Like I said before IF you judge it's high and you see head contact, yes is def a RC. If you judge it too be late then again it's fine for a red card. But if not, then there shouldn't really be an issue with how much force

    Flish - Basically look at any 1 on 1 situation where a player has had open space in front of him/her and then has had a full back to beat and runs into the FB to run through him/her. A kick has went way long to gain territory and the FB has 20m or so to accelerate to full speed and runs into contact. That's more force than pretty much any tackle I've ever seen. But I dare say you'd never give a Pen or a card for Law 9.11. Notwithstanding the caveats of not handing off dangerously, or leading with the elbow etc. Neither would I TBH as it seems ludicrous to do that.

  5. #255
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    Flish - Basically look at any 1 on 1 situation where a player has had open space in front of him/her and then has had a full back to beat and runs into the FB to run through him/her. A kick has went way long to gain territory and the FB has 20m or so to accelerate to full speed and runs into contact. That's more force than pretty much any tackle I've ever seen. But I dare say you'd never give a Pen or a card for Law 9.11. Notwithstanding the caveats of not handing off dangerously, or leading with the elbow etc. Neither would I TBH as it seems ludicrous to do that.
    I would have to see it and judge on it's merits, but as described it sounds like a fair contest, and accidents happen, once someone starts sliding in with boots, elbows leading, starts jumping then all the dynamics change

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    I would have to see it and judge on it's merits, but as described it sounds like a fair contest, and accidents happen, once someone starts sliding in with boots, elbows leading, starts jumping then all the dynamics change

    But the act of running into someone at speed is inherently dangerous. You've said that we want to eradicate dangerous behaviours. All I'm saying is that if we're doing this for the tackler, we need to do the same for Ball Carriers. I'm perfectly happy with hard tackles, I'm perfectly happy with ball carriers running into contact a speed. I'm just trying to establish what the issue with the tackle is. It seems the issue is the force used in the tackle combined with the size difference, am I right? If not, what is the issue?

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    I'm just trying to establish what the issue with the tackle is
    The issue has been explained from many view points, over and over, you disagree, or don't want to agree, not sure which. Maybe go back and have a re-read, if you still think that's ok then

  8. #258
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    So all you've really stated is that it was dangerous. Please tell me, exactly what about it is dangerous. You've not laid out the conditions for this dangerous play.

  9. #259
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    So all you've really stated is that it was dangerous. Please tell me, exactly what about it is dangerous. You've not laid out the conditions for this dangerous play.

  10. #260
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    Default Re: South African schoolboy rugby viral tackle video

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    I hope you're not a ref coach. I'm a relatively new ref, I'm trying to understand why you feel it is dangerous. You seem to either not know why it's dangerous, unable to explain to me why its dangerous or are unwilling to explain to me why its dangerous. I've asked a few times and you've now replied with the above. If you say something is dangerous, you need to qualify with why it's dangerous so that people understand your position. Also, as per you suggestion that I recalibrate, I'm asking for help to do this. How can I do that without understanding where you stand specifically why this is dangerous. If you tell me something is dangerous but not tell me what about a scenario is dangerous I will do 1 of 2 things.....

    1. Ignore you, as you've not given me full feedback to fully understand your point of view.

    or

    2. Apply the same principles you've stated to all scenarios, so when a BC runs into contact, will judge this based on force. So if they break the tackle that's "dangerous," because you've not given me the required feedback to properly apply your view of what is dangerous.

    So, I'll try this 1 more time. What makes this tackle dangerous. Is it-

    1. The level of force used
    2. The tackle was against a smaller player
    3. The timing
    4. The height
    5. A combination of 2 or more of the above (please specify which ones).

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