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Thread: the Chiefs

      
  1. #341

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    The aforementioned Nick Cave, in December 2018, condemned a cultural boycott of Israel.
    Older, white and with a racist tendencies.

    Nick Cave is wrong to perform in Israel
    Just as many artists chose to boycott South African apartheid, so should they do today with Israeli apartheid.
    ...Regardless of his politics and his best intentions, his performance there would help Israel present itself as an open and vibrant society and cover up its decades-old oppression that us Palestinians have been suffering under.

    Similarly, artists from around the world a generation ago were presented with the choice to heed the South African call to boycott apartheid South Africa and refuse complicity in that brutal system of institutionalised segregation and discrimination.

    In the words of a recent UN report, ‘Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people’.

    It is easy to see Nick Cave is wrong on this issue:
    The call for the boycott, also supported inside Israel, is intended primarily as being with Palestinians and Israelis showing solidarity, rather than against anything but apartheid conditions.
    Cave noted that the loss of his son gave him “a deep feeling toward other people and an absolute understanding of their suffering”, but to claim such a high mantle, Cave must do better with all those who have suffered, more extensively and avoidably than he has, and might reasonably consider distancing himself from regimes that institutionalise such suffering. There is a danger in assuming a universality of knowing on the back of life experience so Western-rooted, especially if Cave is then willing to wield this subjective understanding to the disadvantage of non-white populations facing the might of western militarism.
    ..In some respect, Cave is only walking the well-trodden path of the celebrated musician with a faulty political compass.
    Cave misses the basic point that when a group has privilege equality comes to feel like a loss – with this same distinction at the core of understanding or not understanding the Israeli position on Palestine.

    Recalling musician's use of art to speak out against injustice, Palestinians urge Nick Cave to cancel concerts in Israel.

    Even most Israelis are opposed to the Zionists. We are Israeli citizens, opposed to the Israeli government’s policies of oppression, occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinian people
    Last edited by L'irlandais; 15-08-20 at 17:08.
    There are more ways of killing a dog than choking it with butter.

  2. #342

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    As Archbishop Desmond Tutu said:
    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” In 2010, Tutu had the following to say to the Cape Town Opera as they decided whether or not to perform in Israel:
    “Just as we said during apartheid that it was inappropriate for international artists to perform in South Africa in a society founded on discriminatory laws and racial exclusivity, so it would be wrong for Cape Town Opera to perform in Israel.”
    There are more ways of killing a dog than choking it with butter.

  3. #343

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    IMO, we will be in danger of becoming a boring, humourless society. Religion will be replaced by Compliance as the opium of the people, humans stripped of their individuality, living in little "ticky-tacky" boxes; a society in which diversity of opinion will not exist - every member afraid to say or do anything for fear of angering the great God Political Correctness, with humans' freedom to express, innovate and be creative having long been sacrificed on the altar of Social Justice.

    We will have a society with no soul!
    China?
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #344

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    It seems to me that the majority of people complaining about "cancel culture" tend to be white, and slightly older.
    The same people that also own the guns, imagine if it were the other way around. No one would be left to complain.

  5. #345

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post


    If we continue down this path, we may end up with a more diverse and fairer society, but at what cost?

    IMO, we will be in danger of becoming a boring, humourless society. Religion will be replaced by Compliance as the opium of the people, humans stripped of their individuality, living in little "ticky-tacky" boxes; a society in which diversity of opinion will not exist - every member afraid to say or do anything for fear of angering the great God Political Correctness, with humans' freedom to express, innovate and be creative having long been sacrificed on the altar of Social Justice.

    We will have a society with no soul!
    It is worse than the bold letters

    Eventually, every member will not even know how or what to say or do, the mere thought of saying and doing will non existent

  6. #346

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    The aforementioned Nick Cave, in December 2018, condemned a cultural boycott of Israel.
    Older, white and with a racist tendencies.

    Nick Cave is wrong to perform in Israel
    Just as many artists chose to boycott South African apartheid, so should they do today with Israeli apartheid.
    ...Regardless of his politics and his best intentions, his performance there would help Israel present itself as an open and vibrant society and cover up its decades-old oppression that us Palestinians have been suffering under.

    Similarly, artists from around the world a generation ago were presented with the choice to heed the South African call to boycott apartheid South Africa and refuse complicity in that brutal system of institutionalised segregation and discrimination.

    In the words of a recent UN report, ‘Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people’.

    It is easy to see Nick Cave is wrong on this issue:
    The call for the boycott, also supported inside Israel, is intended primarily as being with Palestinians and Israelis showing solidarity, rather than against anything but apartheid conditions.
    Cave misses the basic point that when a group has privilege equality comes to feel like a loss – with this same distinction at the core of understanding or not understanding the Israeli position on Palestine.

    Recalling musician's use of art to speak out against injustice, Palestinians urge Nick Cave to cancel concerts in Israel.

    Even most Israelis are opposed to the Zionists. We are Israeli citizens, opposed to the Israeli government’s policies of oppression, occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinian people

    There is no "right", and no "wrong" there is only "opinion".

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    As Archbishop Desmond Tutu said:
    If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor.” In 2010, Tutu had the following to say to the Cape Town Opera as they decided whether or not to perform in Israel:
    Tutu's characterisation here is nothing more than a blatant attempt to invoke the old chesnut "if you're not for us you're against us". This is a false dichotomy - it always has been, and it always will be.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 15-08-20 at 23:08.
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  7. #347

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    China?
    Yup, Chinese society is the ultimate expression of Political Correctness, where not only is it not "not done" to say certain things, it is illegal, with severe punishment for transgression. Death can be the result of saying the wrong words or doing the wrong things (see Tiananman Square 15 Apr 1989 – 4 Jun 1989), where a man has the bravery to stand in front of a row of tanks, and is later probably executed for doing so.

    Don't anyone be fooled by "Chinese tourism". The Chinese tourists you see are the ones who are allowed out - those who are deemed "politically safe" - sufficiently indoctrinated to risk exposure to Western culture.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 15-08-20 at 23:08.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  8. #348

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Will the mods ever close this thread ?
    What are the mods for ?

  9. #349

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    It seems to me that the majority of people complaining about "cancel culture" tend to be white, and slightly older.
    interesting article:

    https://www.vox.com/culture/2019/12/...20has%20become.


    Loretta Ross is a self-identified liberal who’s come to hold a similar position. In an opinion piece for the New York Times, she wrote that as a black feminist, she finds cancel and call-out culture a “toxic” practice wherein “people attempt to expunge anyone with whom they do not perfectly agree, rather than remain focused on those who profit from discrimination and injustice.”
    In Ross’s view, “most public shaming is horizontal” — that is, it’s not done to justifiably criticize people who are seriously dangerous, but to score brownie points against people who mean no harm. The people doing the canceling, she argues, “become the self-appointed guardians of political purity.”
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #350

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Will the mods ever close this thread ?
    What are the mods for ?
    Translation: You don't like the direction the discussion has taken, and you don't want people who have opinions that differ from yours to have a platform to say things you don't like.

    So much for your support of free speech!
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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