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Thread: the Chiefs

      
  1. #351

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    The aforementioned Nick Cave, in December 2018, condemned a cultural boycott of Israel.
    Older, white and with a racist tendencies.

    Nick Cave is wrong to perform in Israel
    Just as many artists chose to boycott South African apartheid, so should they do today with Israeli apartheid.
    ...Regardless of his politics and his best intentions, his performance there would help Israel present itself as an open and vibrant society and cover up its decades-old oppression that us Palestinians have been suffering under.

    Similarly, artists from around the world a generation ago were presented with the choice to heed the South African call to boycott apartheid South Africa and refuse complicity in that brutal system of institutionalised segregation and discrimination.

    In the words of a recent UN report, ‘Israel has established an apartheid regime that dominates the Palestinian people’.

    It is easy to see Nick Cave is wrong on this issue:
    The call for the boycott, also supported inside Israel, is intended primarily as being with Palestinians and Israelis showing solidarity, rather than against anything but apartheid conditions.
    Cave misses the basic point that when a group has privilege equality comes to feel like a loss – with this same distinction at the core of understanding or not understanding the Israeli position on Palestine.

    Recalling musician's use of art to speak out against injustice, Palestinians urge Nick Cave to cancel concerts in Israel.

    Even most Israelis are opposed to the Zionists. We are Israeli citizens, opposed to the Israeli government’s policies of oppression, occupation, apartheid and ethnic cleansing against the indigenous Palestinian people
    Your UN report was commissioned by Arab States: "ESCWA comprises 18 Arab states in Western Asia and aims to support economic and social development in member states, according to its website. The report was prepared at the request of member states, Khalaf said."
    "U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric told reporters in New York that the report was published without any prior consultation with the U.N. secretariat."

    You need to do MUCH better at sourcing your information. You're either really careless, deliberately misleading, or anti semitic. None of them is a good look for you.

    The report was not endorsed by the UN Sec Gen...
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
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    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
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    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

  2. #352

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    I'm not so concerned about 'canceling' relatively unimportant celebrities. Kanye who?

    More concerning for me is cases like this where experts in their field can lose their job for not toeing the party line. Woe betide anyone else who dares to utter heresy:

    https://www.wesa.fm/post/upmc-cardio...ction#stream/0
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  3. #353

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Translation: You don't like the direction the discussion has taken, and you don't want people who have opinions that differ from yours to have a platform to say things you don't like.

    So much for your support of free speech!
    Oh the irony. You have put your finger on it.
    The anti "cancel culture" letter piblished in Harper's Magazine must be understood in the context of the majority who signed it: a group of exceptionally wealthy and powerful people who cannot take criticism of their often prejudiced views and opinions. What these people do or have to say is becoming less valued as something special as public communication is being revolutionised by social media, but as elites this is something that many of these people are not used to. J. K. Rowling is a key example, can she really be described as a victim? She has so much money and so many platforms to reach her many millions of readers, no matter that she cannot be cancelled. Cancel culture will not be ended by the Harper's letter as for most that have signed it it say more about them than the wider culture, demonstrating that it is getting more difficult for many of these celebrities to navigate these changing times.
    Source
    My emboldening.
    There are more ways of killing a dog than choking it with butter.

  4. #354

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    Your UN report was commissioned by Arab States: "ESCWA comprises 18 Arab states in Western Asia and aims to support economic and social development in member states, according to its website. The report was prepared at the request of member states, Khalaf said."
    "U.N. spokesman Stephane Dujarric told reporters in New York that the report was published without any prior consultation with the U.N. secretariat."

    You need to do MUCH better at sourcing your information. You're either really careless, deliberately misleading, or anti semitic. None of them is a good look for you.

    The report was not endorsed by the UN Sec Gen...
    Throwing the baby out with the bathwater as usual?
    There are more ways of killing a dog than choking it with butter.

  5. #355

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Translation: You don't like the direction the discussion has taken, and you don't want people who have opinions that differ from yours to have a platform to say things you don't like.

    So much for your support of free speech!
    Not at all, it's because the thread lowers the quality and relevance of the forum . A well run forum is moderated so that stays more or less on topic
    Last edited by crossref; 16-08-20 at 11:08.

  6. #356

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by L'irlandais View Post
    Throwing the baby out with the bathwater as usual?
    Nope, he's not throwing out the baby with the bathwater at all... not even close

    Your "baby" was a clearly biased report by ONE side in heated dispute that has gone on for over 2000 years. Said report was NOT endorsed by the General Assembly, the Security Council; the Economic & Social Council or the International Court of Justice, and was not approved by the Secretary General. As such, it carries no weight whatsoever. If you had bothered to do some actual research instead of Googling for what you wanted and stopping as soon as you found it you might have learned something.

    There are two main dangers in Googling a few words to get some results for debate

    1. You get the results that you want - ones that favour your position because of the choice of words you search,

    2. You end up thinking you know everything about the issue because you think Google has given you all the knowledge,

    This is what the Jay Windley quote in my signature refers to. Google will find you the raw information, but as any good scientist will tell you, the raw data is no good to you unless you know how to interpret it. Google results are worth diddly squat unless you understand what they mean, and that understanding often only comes with hours of reading and detailed research. Its why Googling the words "racism" and "New Zealand" together in a search (which is almost certainly what you did earlier in the thread) will not even get you close to an understanding of the issue. If you don't live here and are not immersed in the culture, it will take you weeks of reading and research - hours with your arse in a library chair reading reference books on the subject material. Anyone who has undertaken any form of tertiary education (and I have) will tell you that whipping up a few relevant articles from a Google search doesn't cut the mustard.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  7. #357

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Will the mods ever close this thread ?
    What are the mods for ?
    We are all adults.
    If people stop posting to a thread it will die off.
    We are moderators not censors.

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  8. #358

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Not at all, it's because the thread lowers the quality and relevance of the forum . A well run forum is moderated so that stays more or less on topic
    The moderators here have always allowed General thread topics to go where the discussion takes them. I see no reason to change now just because it doesn't suit some posters.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  9. #359

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    I have moved the posts dealing with criticism of the way this forum is moderated to its own thread in the "Referee Only" section.

    http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread....m-is-moderated

    Please post your comments on that subject there.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 16-08-20 at 12:08.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  10. #360

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    Default Re: the Chiefs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Nope, he's not throwing out the baby with the bathwater at all... not even close

    Your "baby" was a clearly biased report by ONE side in heated dispute that has gone on for over 2000 years.
    Nope 95% of that post #341 was about how wrong Nick Cave is on the topic of canceling.
    The inclusion of the UN report wa to back up the point that by playing in Tel Aviv he is bolstering a corrupt regime.
    There are more ways of killing a dog than choking it with butter.

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