Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 21

Thread: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

      
  1. #1

    Referees in England
    chbg's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    D&WRURS, HRURS & ARURS
    Grade
    Level 8
    Join Date
    15 May 09
    Posts
    1,165

    Default Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Taking an opportunity to get back to discussing application of rugby Laws:

    Just seen highlights of Force v Waratahs from the weekend:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu0G...YypAY9&index=4

    Two main decisions rather puzzled me - were they necessary?

    1. 4:30 (Youtube time): Obstruction by White player in front, but he didn't appear to move to cause it.
    2. 5:01: White 9 deemed offside; was he not put onside by 12?

    The decision at the end of the match looked a bit uncertain, but accepted by all. In fact a 'reverse' (if you see what I mean) knock-on causing the confusion?

    On the other hand, the two early scrum penalties seemed spot on.

    Thoughts?
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  2. #2

    Referees in England
    Pablo's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Buckinghamshire Referees Society
    Grade
    6
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    1,412

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    1. My view is that Blue 16 has looked for a penalty, and I feel vindicated in that by the way he theatrically throws himself to the ground. The white player is barely moving, and he's certainly not looking at the blue player. No penalty, play on.

    2. Bit of a gotcha call, and not something we would ever pick up on an average Saturday in non-showbiz, non-TMO rugby. 9 is offside at the point of the kick, and therefore liable to penalty if he moves forward towards the ball (Law 10.4.a). He does do this very marginally, before being passed by White 12. It's only clear if you go frame-by-frame - he's on the halfway line when the ball is kicked; by the time White 12 has passed him, he's a metre or so over the line. I loathe TMO calls like this - they are technically correct, but utterly lacking in empathy for the game.
    If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs and blaming it on you... you must be a rugby referee!

    "Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity - and I'm not sure about the universe..." - Albert Einstein

  3. #3
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Quebec Society of Rugby Referees
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    16 Feb 12
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    I thought the offside decision was very harsh. 9 was running more across field than upfield, and swerved a tiny bit to his left before being put onside. It was completely immaterial.
    Most of us would have been in the same position as the ref, would never have seen 9, and nobody else would have noticed either.

  4. #4

    Referees in New Zealand
    Ian_Cook's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Retired player and referee
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    12 Jul 05
    Posts
    13,628

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Quote Originally Posted by buff View Post
    I thought the offside decision was very harsh. 9 was running more across field than upfield, and swerved a tiny bit to his left before being put onside. It was completely immaterial.
    Most of us would have been in the same position as the ref, would never have seen 9, and nobody else would have noticed either.
    They are being very hard on that this year. White 9 was a few metres offside at the kick and then moved towards the ball. He is supposed to STOP until he is put onside, and gains a considerable advantage by not doing so. Had he complied with the Law, I seriously doubt he could have been in position to receive the pass from White 15
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  5. #5

    Referees in America
    Not Kurt Weaver's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Ohio
    Grade
    C3
    Join Date
    11 Sep 08
    Posts
    2,265
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Quote Originally Posted by Pablo View Post
    1. My view is that Blue 16 has looked for a penalty, and I feel vindicated in that by the way he theatrically throws himself to the ground. The white player is barely moving, and he's certainly not looking at the blue player. No penalty, play on.
    .
    I read this somewhere, doesn't the bold below apply?

    The game is played only by players who are onside.

    OFFSIDE AND ONSIDE IN OPEN PLAY

    A player is offside in open play if that player is in front of a team-mate who is carrying the ball or who last played it. An offside player must not interfere with play. This includes:

    Playing the ball.

    Tackling the ball-carrier.

    Preventing the opposition from playing as they wish.

  6. #6
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Quebec Society of Rugby Referees
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    16 Feb 12
    Posts
    355

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    They are being very hard on that this year. White 9 was a few metres offside at the kick and then moved towards the ball. He is supposed to STOP until he is put onside, and gains a considerable advantage by not doing so. Had he complied with the Law, I seriously doubt he could have been in position to receive the pass from White 15
    By the letter of the law you are right, but he would have made it with time to spare. He did not accelerate upfield until he was put onside.

  7. #7

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,877

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    They are being very hard on that this year. White 9 was a few metres offside at the kick and then moved towards the ball. He is supposed to STOP until he is put onside, and gains a considerable advantage by not doing so. Had he complied with the Law, I seriously doubt he could have been in position to receive the pass from White 15
    He is not required to stand still. He just cannot legally move forward. Running sideways or, of course, back is perfectly OK.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  8. #8

    Referees in England
    Phil E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Staffordshire and Royal Navy
    Grade
    8
    Join Date
    22 Jan 08
    Posts
    15,232
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    He is not required to stand still. He just cannot legally move forward. Running sideways or, of course, back is perfectly OK.
    Not strictly true.

    The player must not "move forwards towards the ball". (admittedly not a great description).

    If moving sideways takes him towards the ball then he could interfere with play.

    Follow my Award Winning blog The Rugby Ref


  9. #9

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    10,476

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    sideways isn't forwards. If the law makers wanted to include sideways they shoud have included it, or been less specific.

    I accept that sideways could be towards the ball.

    just not "forwards towards" the ball.

    This is what the rewrite was for I thought - to remove any ambiguities.

    thats my pedantry done for the day.

    :-)

    didds
    Last edited by didds; 19-08-20 at 15:08.

  10. #10

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,877

    Default Re: Super Rugby AU: Force v Waratahs

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Not strictly true.

    The player must not "move forwards towards the ball". (admittedly not a great description).

    If moving sideways takes him towards the ball then he could interfere with play.

    • An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
      • Interferes with play; or
      • Moves forwards towards the ball


    Interfering with play is a separate offence.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •