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Thread: deliberate into touch after knock-on

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    I didn't see it as green knocking it forward deliberately or otherwise.
    No more so than if he had been juggling to control a ball at chest height etc.
    Possibly when I see a replay I'll change my view.

    Edit.....I am Irish though! !
    Juggling. Not in law book as far as I can see. But if I understand you, are you saying that if Blue had caught the ball instead of knocking it dead, it would not have been deemed as a knock on, but as a strip?

    Here is what the law says and this what the Green player did:

    Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 01-11-20 at 19:11.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #12
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Can’t find the specific variation, but it’s under possession, as in if you are attempting to gain possession (juggling) you are deemed to be in possession and can be tackled, which is what I saw happen, if not for the deliberate knock out green would have caught his juggle, and to be honest I thought a PT too.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Can’t find the specific variation, but it’s under possession, as in if you are attempting to gain possession (juggling) you are deemed to be in possession and can be tackled, which is what I saw happen, if not for the deliberate knock out green would have caught his juggle, and to be honest I thought a PT too.
    Yes. But if blue had merely touched the ball, not knocking into touch, it would have been knock on by green, scrum blue
    Last edited by crossref; 01-11-20 at 20:11.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    True, and indeed if blue had tried to take possession (juggle) it then even if the knock was not called they would have avoided a penalty and any extra sanction on top

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Can’t find the specific variation, but it’s under possession, as in if you are attempting to gain possession (juggling) you are deemed to be in possession and can be tackled, which is what I saw happen, if not for the deliberate knock out green would have caught his juggle, and to be honest I thought a PT too.

    Attempting to gain 'control' might be a better way of putting it.....but yes the player is deemed to be in possession and is tackleable!

  6. #16
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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Juggling. Not in law book as far as I can see. But if I understand you, are you saying that if Blue had caught the ball instead of knocking it dead, it would not have been deemed as a knock on, but as a strip?

    Here is what the law says and this what the Green player did:

    Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
    If the green player had deliberately slapped/tapped/otherwise propelled the ball forward in an attempt to gain an advantage by preventing the blue player gaining possession then it would have been a penalty against green. In my opinion this is not what happened ie green was just attempting to gain control/possession and the ball happened to go forward in the process.

    That's how I referee it based on years of listening to 'guidance ' and clarifications and that doesn't mean that I am right! !

  7. #17

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    If the green player had deliberately slapped/tapped/otherwise propelled the ball forward in an attempt to gain an advantage by preventing the blue player gaining possession then it would have been a penalty against green. In my opinion this is not what happened ie green was just attempting to gain control/possession and the ball happened to go forward in the process.

    That's how I referee it based on years of listening to 'guidance ' and clarifications and that doesn't mean that I am right! !
    You are right. There is no suggestion that Green did anything intentionally illegal. It was a common or garden variety knock-on. If he'd regained the ball it would have been play on. But he didn't, it was touched by Blue, so Blue scrum ... EXCEPT Blue then committed egregious & unnecessary foul play.

    But what makes it interesting for me is considering what Barnes would have done if Blue had committed some other type of non-dangerous foul play, such as obstruction or intentionally knocking the ball forward. Would he still have penalised Blue or come back for the scrum?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  8. #18

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    maybe this is a better question.

    Let's say that, after the Green knock-on, the ball hits the ground then Blue intentionally knocks ball into touch. Would Barnes have still gone to his pocket?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    If the green player had deliberately slapped/tapped/otherwise propelled the ball forward in an attempt to gain an advantage by preventing the blue player gaining possession
    that is what he did, in fact do. If green hadn't hit it forward blue could have easily got the ball.

    as for juggling, green jumps to his the ball forward and it goes up. The ball still appears to be rising as green is landing! And he takes 2 steps after landing before he's close to the ball again (just before blue hits it away). I'm not so sure that meets the descriptions of "juggling" that I've previously read on here!

  10. #20
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    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    maybe this is a better question.

    Let's say that, after the Green knock-on, the ball hits the ground then Blue intentionally knocks ball into touch. Would Barnes have still gone to his pocket?
    I would say yes he should given his actual decision...however, I reckon he wouldn't (and no one would expect it)

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