Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 47

Thread: deliberate into touch after knock-on

      
  1. #21
    Coach/Referee

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    03 May 13
    Posts
    1,145

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    You are right. There is no suggestion that Green did anything intentionally illegal. It was a common or garden variety knock-on. If he'd regained the ball it would have been play on. But he didn't, it was touched by Blue, so Blue scrum ... EXCEPT Blue then committed egregious & unnecessary foul play.

    But what makes it interesting for me is considering what Barnes would have done if Blue had committed some other type of non-dangerous foul play, such as obstruction or intentionally knocking the ball forward. Would he still have penalised Blue or come back for the scrum?
    You are asking some good questions. ...challenging!

    We seem to agree that Green was 'juggling' therefore deemed to be in possession.
    So therefore blue simply took the ball and gained possession. I would therefore be refereeing from that point and judging what happened next....ie no knock on from green.

  2. #22

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    19,277

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    maybe this is a better question.

    Let's say that, after the Green knock-on, the ball hits the ground then Blue intentionally knocks ball into touch. Would Barnes have still gone to his pocket?
    Great question.
    He would have given scrum blue , I reckon

  3. #23

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    13,190

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Great question.
    He would have given scrum blue , I reckon
    but there'd be no logic to that. Once he decided that no PT, then whether ball hits ground or not shouldn't matter. Advantage law says foul play trumps knock on, so penalty should always be awarded against Blue.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  4. #24

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    19,277

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    but there'd be no logic to that. Once he decided that no PT, then whether ball hits ground or not shouldn't matter. Advantage law says foul play trumps knock on, so penalty should always be awarded against Blue.
    well the logic would be that ifthe ball hit the floor (clearly now a knock on by green) then blue subsequently knocking the ball into touch would be completely immaterial. So scrum blue for the knock on (and a quick word of explanation would be in order)

  5. #25

    Referees in Australia
    Dickie E's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    VRRA
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    19 Jan 07
    Posts
    13,190

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    well the logic would be that ifthe ball hit the floor (clearly now a knock on by green) then blue subsequently knocking the ball into touch would be completely immaterial. So scrum blue for the knock on (and a quick word of explanation would be in order)
    1. but as soon as Blue touches the ball (in lieu of ball touching ground) it is "clearly a knock on by Green". So what happens after that is immaterial.

    2. law 7 doesn't distinguish between dangerous foul play and non-dangerous foul play. So if a punch to the mouth is always material, then all other "foul plays" (inc. knocking ball into touch) must be material.

    Anyway, all good fun. Good to have a think about these things.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  6. #26

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    19,277

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Yes, it is actually a very interesting incident

  7. #27
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Rugby Nederland
    Grade
    WR level 2
    Join Date
    13 Apr 15
    Posts
    1,439

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    This was recently addressed in another thread. I think (at least for me) foul = dangerous, unfair, misconduct and not obstruction or repeated offences.

    If green knocked on and blue started screaming abuse in the ref's ear or flung himself to the ground clutching his face, I'd be giving the penalty against that and not going back for the scrum.

  8. #28

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    19,277

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    This was recently addressed in another thread. I think (at least for me) foul = dangerous, unfair, misconduct and not obstruction or repeated offences.

    If green knocked on and blue started screaming abuse in the ref's ear or flung himself to the ground clutching his face, I'd be giving the penalty against that and not going back for the scrum.
    green knocks ball forward, ball hits ground, blue smacks it into touch ..... decision?
    green knocks ball forward, blue smacks it into touch .... decision?

  9. #29
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Rugby Nederland
    Grade
    WR level 2
    Join Date
    13 Apr 15
    Posts
    1,439

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    In practice, scrum blue for the first (if I've not called advantage), penalty green for the second. Certainly in the case of last weekend, where there's a clear and obvious chance of regathering.

  10. #30

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    19,277

    Default Re: deliberate into touch after knock-on

    it's fun to introduce a clock

    blue is winning by 1 point, time has expired - green knocks ball forward, ball hits ground, blue smacks it into touch ..... decision?

    knock on = time up = end of game hmmm.. doesn't seem quite right -- but you are not going to give green a match winning PK from that

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •