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Thread: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

      
  1. #11

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    my proposed law would allow the knock back provided that the player either started, or finished, in the FoP (or both) and disregard the plane.
    Wot? That is current law


    The ball is not in touch or touch-in-goal if:
    a. The ball reaches the plane of touch but is caught, knocked or kicked by a player who is in the playing area.
    b. A player jumps, from within or outside the playing area, and catches the ball, and then lands in the playing area, regardless of whether the ball reached the plane of touch.
    c. A player jumps from the playing area and knocks (or catches and releases) the ball back into the playing area, before landing in touch or touch-in-goal, regardless of whether the ball reached the plane of touch.


    In the OP, the player both starts and finishes in touch, so plane of touch has to be relevant.
    Last edited by Dickie E; 04-11-20 at 19:11.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #12

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Oh yeh

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Easy to say now, but I did think at the time 'I'd like to see that again' -but NOT a clear and obvious mistake at game speed.
    Those are my principles, and if you don't like them... well, I have others.
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  4. #14

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    Wot? That is current law


    The ball is not in touch or touch-in-goal if:
    a. The ball reaches the plane of touch but is caught, knocked or kicked by a player who is in the playing area.
    b. A player jumps, from within or outside the playing area, and catches the ball, and then lands in the playing area, regardless of whether the ball reached the plane of touch.
    c. A player jumps from the playing area and knocks (or catches and releases) the ball back into the playing area, before landing in touch or touch-in-goal, regardless of whether the ball reached the plane of touch.


    In the OP, the player both starts and finishes in touch, so plane of touch has to be relevant.
    I think crossref is proposing that the plane of touch should always be irrelevant to whether or not the ball is in touch, and should only be used to determined where the LoT is, i.e. the ball should only be in touch if it touches something or someone that is in touch. Under such a scenario

    1. A player who starts in the FoP and finishes in touch is regarded as in the FoP

    2. A player who starts in touch and finished in the FoP is regarded as in the FoP



    I'd go a step further and just use the Rugby League touch laws...

    SECTION 10 – TOUCH AND TOUCH IN-GOAL
    10.1 Touch

    10.1.1 The ball is in touch if:
    (a) it, or a player in contact with it, touches the touch line; and/or
    (b) it, or a player in contact with it, touches the ground outside the
    touch line.

    10.1.2 The ball is out where it first crossed the touch or touch-in-goal line.

    10.1.3 (about the "play the ball", not relevant to rugby union)

    10.1.4 Player Jumps
    (a) If a player jumps from in touch and makes contact with the ball while off
    the ground, the ball is in touch.
    (b) If a player jumps from the field of play and knocks the ball back into the
    field of play while off the ground, the ball is not deemed to be in touch...
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  5. #15

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    I think crossref is proposing that the plane of touch should always be irrelevant to whether or not the ball is in touch, and should only be used to determined where the LoT is, i.e. the ball should only be in touch if it touches something or someone that is in touch. Under such a scenario

    1. A player who starts in the FoP and finishes in touch is regarded as in the FoP

    2. A player who starts in touch and finished in the FoP is regarded as in the FoP

    Um, yeh, that is what current law says.

    But we still need to be cognisant of plane of touch because, under certain circumstances, that tells us WHO put the ball into touch.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    We do need the plane of touch in some contexts eg determining where the throw-in is after a kick to touch, as 10.1.2 says.
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    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    We do need the plane of touch in some contexts eg determining where the throw-in is after a kick to touch, as 10.1.2 says.
    That was my point... its simpler to just use the plane only to determine where the ball went into touch, not if the ball went into touch

    This would also have the benefit making things a lot easier for "Grass-Roots Gary" the weekend ref... you can almost always see if the ball touches something or someone (or the ground) in touch, but unless you are close to in line with the touchline, judging the ball in touch using the plane is mostly guesswork.
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  8. #18

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    but unless you are close to in line with the touchline, judging the ball in touch using the plane is mostly guesswork.
    that why you give someone on the sideline a flag
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #19

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    that why you give someone on the sideline a flag
    All well and good if that someone is an AR and not a member of the home club.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  10. #20

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    Default Re: Frances first try against Ireland - Should we have gone back for a lineout?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    All well and good if that someone is an AR and not a member of the home club.
    I'm sure you're alluding to the complexity of the decision rather than accusing anyone of cheat-at-poker.jpg

    Noting that even Angus Gardner gets it wrong sometimes
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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