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Thread: knock on in touch

      
  1. #21
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: knock on in touch

    In this case it was a penalty, so it was Black to throw in either way. But had black kicked from hand, and the ball had gone over the plane of touch, then black has brought it out and gold gets the lineout.

    If gold manages to bring it back in, it's fair enough to consider it as playing on (and a knock-on means scrum black), but if gold doesn't bring it back in then in my view (and not that of the law) it's in touch, brought out by black, whether it's left or caught or fumbled once it goes into touch.

    Considering the touch law revisions to reduce the number of lineouts and encourage the receiving team to play on where possible, it seems counterintuitive.

  2. #22

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    Default Re: knock on in touch

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    had black kicked from hand, and the ball had gone over the plane of touch, then black has brought it out and gold gets the lineout.

    If gold manages to bring it back in, it's fair enough to consider it as playing on (and a knock-on means scrum black), but if gold doesn't bring it back in then in my view (and not that of the law) it's in touch, brought out by black, whether it's left or caught or fumbled once it goes into touch.

    Considering the touch law revisions to reduce the number of lineouts and encourage the receiving team to play on where possible, it seems counterintuitive.
    it's not just counterintuitive - I think you are wrong. From the Aus ruling, I agree with Dickie (and disagree with Ian and OB) and I think the answer when it's a kick in general play is --

    1. Kick in General play
    a. Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in the FoP.... scrum Black
    b. Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in touch, line-out black (as gold last person to touch it)

  3. #23

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    Default Re: knock on in touch

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    it's not just counterintuitive - I think you are wrong. From the Aus ruling, I agree with Dickie (and disagree with Ian and OB) and I think the answer when it's a kick in general play is --

    1. Kick in General play
    a. Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in the FoP.... scrum Black
    b. Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in touch, scrum / line-out option black (as gold last person to touch it)
    CR, you've made a typo. If you agree with me, should be as shown in red
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  4. #24

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    Default Re: knock on in touch

    the incident is at game time 11:09 (first half)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSmaX9KygNA

    and a very entertaining game it was
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #25
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: knock on in touch

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    it's not just counterintuitive - I think you are wrong. From the Aus ruling, I agree with Dickie (and disagree with Ian and OB) and I think the answer when it's a kick in general play is --

    1. Kick in General play
    a. Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in the FoP.... scrum Black
    b. Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in touch, line-out black (as gold last person to touch it)
    Sorry, I wasn't clear.
    Had black kicked from hand, and the ball had gone over the plane of touch and been caught or hit the ground, then black has brought it out and gold gets the lineout.

    My problem: if gold catches it, they get the lineout as black brought the ball into touch. If gold fumbles it forward in the act of trying to catch it, black gets options in spite of black having brought the ball into touch, and it not being brought back into play. If you want to encourage continuity, it makes sense to me to reward gold's ingenuity in keeping the ball alive (although not to the extent of rewarding knock-ons back into a live situation) and penalising black by loss of the lineout if they take the ball into touch and it goes dead.

    regarding your point "
    Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in touch, line-out black (as gold last person to touch it)" - gold is also the last person to touch it with a clean catch standing in touch. So that's inconsistent.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: knock on in touch

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post

    regarding your point "[/COLOR] Ball knocked forward and next touched the ground in touch, line-out black (as gold last person to touch it)" - gold is also the last person to touch it with a clean catch standing in touch. So that's inconsistent.
    the difference is that
    - if gold is standing in touch, then the moment he touches the ball, the ball is in touch and black put it there
    - if gold leaps from the FoP and knocks the ball (which he is allowed to do) then at the moment he touches it, the ball is NOT in touch .... until it hits the ground and then it is. So it it was gold who put it there.

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