Bath Vs Wasps 8.1.21

[Balones]

I've watched the incident.
This was not a case of something being allowed but rather a case of of something being missed. Throughout the game Matt Carley had been fastidious about holding back the defensive side at a lineout. He used one horizontal arm to hold them back and some verbal communication. He didn't pay particular attention to the attacking side. Was this the role of the AR's? Who knows, we were not at the pre-match briefing.
At the particular incident in question the referee was not facing the attacking side but was looking towards the defending side who had started to creep up immediately the maul was formed. He had his back to the attacking side so missed the extra players joining. The AR is seen to be very focused on the blind side of the maul/narrow side. He also was partially turned away from the attacking side so at best might have seen some advancement in peripheral vision. Should it have been a call from the far side AR? Certainly an incident that should have been raised during debrief.

When the maul was called over only one extra player had arrived. The second arrived a second or two afterward but had crept up offside before then.

[Balones]

Having now watched the whole match I wouldn't mind betting that something was said/discussed at half time because there was much more attention paid to both sides in the second half. Bath could feel slightly aggrieved that they didn't get the same generosity as Wasps at 1.22.00 approx when Bath had a 5M lineout.

[crossref]

There are two different 'horizontal arms things'.....it depends on the angle /position of the referee ie if the ref is facing the touchline and the horizontal arms are pointing towards both backlines then it is being used to signal a '10m hold' whereas obviously if the ref is facing a defensive line at a maul the horizontal arms are meant to signal 'stay on hindmost '.

Video of the OP scenario could clarify.

yes.
for the lineout, I prefer the arm up. I wonder why it has gone out of fashion at elite levels..

[Balones]

yes.
for the lineout, I prefer the arm up. I wonder why it has gone out of fashion at elite levels..

Matt Carly seems to like both methods. Most of the time it was arms out but on at least one occasion it was arm up.
It may well be because at the higher levels with appointed ARs the referee invariably stands in midfield at lineouts but at the lower end they stand quite often at the front. Arms out at the front would not be seen. Arms out to the side can control both sides or one side if the ref wants to be more specific. One arm up doesn’t have the specificity if required. Also moving with an arm up in the air can look a little ungainly.

[crossref]

Matt Carly seems to like both methods. Most of the time it was arms out but on at least one occasion it was arm up.
It may well be because at the higher levels with appointed ARs the referee invariably stands in midfield at lineouts but at the lower end they stand quite often at the front. Arms out at the front would not be seen. Arms out to the side can control both sides or one side if the ref wants to be more specific. One arm up doesn’t have the specificity if required. Also moving with an arm up in the air can look a little ungainly.

you wouldn't want to put one arm out, though, as that looks like advantage.

this is one that would be worth formalising into the lawbook I reckon - a signal for lineout over.

They could also 'officialise' the commonly used signals for
- play on
- no try
- missed kick

[Balones]

Point with finger to stay back and flat hand for advantage? Eye tests for all players?

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Eye tests for all players?

Machine guns for full backs!

Gen. Sir Anthony Cecil Hogmanay Melchett

[didds]

There are two different 'horizontal arms things'.....it depends on the angle /position of the referee ie if the ref is facing the touchline and the horizontal arms are pointing towards both backlines then it is being used to signal a '10m hold' whereas obviously if the ref is facing a defensive line at a maul the horizontal arms are meant to signal 'stay on hindmost '.

Video of the OP scenario could clarify.

like.

makes sense - tx ... THIS is why I come here to learn :-)

[ctrainor]

I think the key thing here is, there is no official signal for when the line out is over.
Convention to me was always arm straight up and comes down when the ref decides you have moved off the line of touch.
That is clear to players, crowd and ARs however it is not a recognised official signal.
I think it should be, then there would be no dispute.
At top level ARs can clearly see and communicate to the ref that attack or defence have encroached.
Problem solved .
While I'm at it, there appears to be no official signal for the ref to indicate an attempt at a penalty goal has been selected.
Always used to be two arms outstretched then move indicating towards the posts.
Again clear to crowd/players/ARs . Everyone used to do it until St. Nigel invented the phrase "shot" and used his one finger shuffle to point .
The two arm signal should become official.

[Balones]

I must admit that in this game the players tended to ignore the signals anyway. The only way Matt could get them to comply was by verbally telling them, and on several occasions was seen/heard to send them back after the players had almost joined the maul. They were still offside when he called the maul over and hadn’t returned to an offside position.
The problem is that the officials are very much focused on the formation and dynamics of the maul and encroachment tends to be a secondary aspect of the refereeing at that point. Most of the time it is immaterial- and then we have a penalty try, half-time talk and an inconsistency between halves.