Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 15

Thread: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

      
  1. #1

    Referees in England
    ctrainor's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Cumbria Referees Society
    Grade
    7
    Join Date
    23 Jun 05
    Posts
    2,487

    Default International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Watching the games yesterday and most games, you can predict when scrums were going to take 2 minutes or longer.
    The referees and authorities need to get a grip of this.

    It makes such a boring spectacle and ruins the game.

    For me the clock should be stopped the first time a scrum has to be reset and only restart when the ball is back in play and fed into a scrum. (let's not get sidetracked on ridiculous feeding).

    The referee doesn't need to be involved in time keeping for this. The TMO or similar could do that.

    I'm sure there has been talk of a 1 minute shot clock for scrums. This should be implemented immediately for me. As soon as a scrum is awarded, the clock should not be able to run more than a minute until the ball is back in play.

    You can guarantee in a close game that any scrum near the end of the game or close to when a sin bin is about to expire that scrum will be reset 2 or 3 times.
    Ciaran Trainor

  2. #2

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    10,225

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    we can debate all we like buit until WR agree asnd act its is no more than that.

    Meanwhile... if scrums werre blown in fullm accorance with the alws a deal of the stupidity wood disappear. when 9s can stick the ball under the 2nd rows feet, there is nothing the oppo can do to tey and win the ball. so consequently they seek a penalty from shovign hard etc etc etc and packing low looking for a collapse etc etc etc.

    start to make the scrum a fair contest and maybe we avoid the PK machine approach.

    But weve been here before for years now so it clearly isnt going to alter.

    Call for BCM666

    didds

  3. #3
    Rugby Club Member Lex Hipkins's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Canterbury
    Grade
    I am a Coach
    Join Date
    04 Dec 08
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    Watching the games yesterday and most games, you can predict when scrums were going to take 2 minutes or longer.
    The referees and authorities need to get a grip of this.

    It makes such a boring spectacle and ruins the game.

    For me the clock should be stopped the first time a scrum has to be reset and only restart when the ball is back in play and fed into a scrum. (let's not get sidetracked on ridiculous feeding).

    The referee doesn't need to be involved in time keeping for this. The TMO or similar could do that.

    I'm sure there has been talk of a 1 minute shot clock for scrums. This should be implemented immediately for me. As soon as a scrum is awarded, the clock should not be able to run more than a minute until the ball is back in play.

    You can guarantee in a close game that any scrum near the end of the game or close to when a sin bin is about to expire that scrum will be reset 2 or 3 times.
    Two queries on this ...

    a. I don’t have a TMO or similar so who would time this in the games I do? Or are we talking about having different laws for different levels of the game? A slippery slope in my opinion.

    b. If you stop the clock doesn’t that take away any pressure to speed up the restart, and therefore won’t scrums take even longer? Meaning that games last longer and become even less of a spectator sport. I therefore don’t think stopping the clock is the answer. If you must, set a maximum time limit and be prepared to penalise (free kick) against any team causing the delay. But clocking stopping is not the answer.

  4. #4

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    18,850

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    we do ALREADY have this Law

    19.4 Teams must be ready to form the scrum within 30 seconds of the mark being made. Sanction: Free-kick.


    so if you apply that your CROUCH will me - at most - 30 seconds after the scrum award, and SET would then normally be at most -- what? 40s?

  5. #5
    Rugby Club Member Lex Hipkins's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Canterbury
    Grade
    I am a Coach
    Join Date
    04 Dec 08
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    we do ALREADY have this Law

    19.4 Teams must be ready to form the scrum within 30 seconds of the mark being made. Sanction: Free-kick.


    so if you apply that your CROUCH will me - at most - 30 seconds after the scrum award, and SET would then normally be at most -- what? 40s?
    Unfortunately the problem is not about how long it takes teams to “be ready to form the scrum” it’s how long after they are “ready to form” that they actually do 'form'.

  6. #6

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    18,850

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    yes, but 'ready to form' must mean you can call 'crouch' , so ...

  7. #7
    Rugby Club Member Lex Hipkins's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Canterbury
    Grade
    I am a Coach
    Join Date
    04 Dec 08
    Posts
    68

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    yes, but 'ready to form' must mean you can call 'crouch' , so ...
    It could be argued (and I’m sure somebody will) that “ready to form” simply means eight people have generally gathered together in the right place. For that law to have any real meaning it needs to be more precise and have some teeth.

  8. #8

    Referees in England


    Soc/Assoc
    --
    Grade
    Grassroots
    Join Date
    14 Sep 09
    Posts
    18,850

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Hipkins View Post
    It could be argued (and I’m sure somebody will) that “ready to form” simply means eight people have generally gathered together in the right place. For that law to have any real meaning it needs to be more precise and have some teeth.
    yes, that would be better, but I think it would be very reasonable for a referee to state that teams need to be ready for the instrction 'crouch' within 30s , and to FK if not.

    Luke Pearce does a great job or hurrying everyone up

  9. #9

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    10,225

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lex Hipkins View Post
    If you must, set a maximum time limit and be prepared to penalise (free kick) against any team causing the delay. .
    That's a FK that can be of course taken as a scrum? becasue after all, a FK on your own 10m line is other wise just useless.

  10. #10

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    10,225

    Default Re: International and 1st class scrums, time to stop the clock?

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    we do ALREADY have this Law

    19.4 Teams must be ready to form the scrum within 30 seconds of the mark being made. Sanction: Free-kick.

    And the FK gets taken as a scrum and we are bacvk to square one. Unless of course eventually becasue it happens to often you end up with a PK for deleiberate law breaking.

    but you had be pretty sure who is at fault for not setting up in 30 seconds if you are goig to start awarding PKs that in themselves became game changers...

    That's the deeper issue here. The FK is useless - so becomes a scrum,. so it doesnt solve the source issue anyway.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •