Page 6 of 29 FirstFirst ... 234567891016 ... LastLast
Results 51 to 60 of 286

Thread: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

      
  1. #51

    Referees in England
    Balones's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Leics
    Grade
    NP Performance Reviewer
    Join Date
    24 Oct 06
    Posts
    1,018

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    Well, one thing that is certain, we can’t say that the referee was influenced by the home crowd.

  2. #52

    Referees in England
    Skids's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    RAFRURS
    Grade
    Level 10
    Join Date
    14 Sep 10
    Posts
    326

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    If he felt England were delaying he could have told the mto get a move on and eventually card Farrell. He just had a horrible brainfart that was ugly.
    The brainfart occurring before he saw England were not ready or after?

    An avoidable decision (just wait a few seconds, no-one would have said anything) has led to huge controversy and the match will be remembered for nothing else. Not what any referee wants.

  3. #53
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cambridge and St Neots
    Grade
    I am a Fan
    Join Date
    08 Mar 11
    Posts
    1,513

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    I think the problem is his English is not good enough to express the nuance.
    Had he said something like take a minute to talk to your team, Farrell would know he did not have unlimited time.

    In my book the offending team do not get extra time to set because I have been kind and given them a warning instead of carding them.
    England are prone to switching off at a penalty they would kick.

  4. #54

    Resident Club Coach
    didds's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    N/A
    Grade
    Club Coach
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    10,384

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    Oh to be a fly on the wall at the debrief...

  5. #55

    Advises in England
    OB..'s Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Glos & District
    Grade
    Adviser (grass roots)
    Join Date
    07 Oct 04
    Posts
    22,799

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    The look on Rees-Zammit's face said it all. He "knew" he had knocked on and couldn't believe his luck when the referee allowed the try.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  6. #56

    Referees in America
    thepercy's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    New York State Rugby Referees Society
    Grade
    Level 1
    Join Date
    21 Sep 13
    Posts
    868

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    OF, White Captain is the one who infringed, so no real need to have a lengthy team chat.

    I timed it, there were 40 seconds between time off and OF asking "can you let us know when time is on?" Another 5 seconds and the whistle blows for time on.

  7. #57
    Rugby Club Member

    Soc/Assoc
    Cardiff Society of Welsh Rugby Union Referees
    Grade
    Level 2
    Join Date
    05 Jan 18
    Posts
    2,074

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    Quote Originally Posted by Skids View Post
    The brainfart occurring before he saw England were not ready or after?

    An avoidable decision (just wait a few seconds, no-one would have said anything) has led to huge controversy and the match will be remembered for nothing else. Not what any referee wants.
    Totally agree He could have managed it better.

  8. #58

    Probationer Member


    Soc/Assoc
    BC, Canada
    Grade
    Level 2 - different in BC
    Join Date
    28 Feb 21
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Point 2, per the definition: Before the original player can catch it.

    Batting it backwards, flailing out a leg to kick it forwards following a fumble, etc... doesn't count.

    ISTR this discussion with a high-profile case with an Australian player batting it back following a fumble on a line break, a couple of years ago - can any Aussie refs help? In the opponents 22, towards the left-hand side of the pitch.
    Sorry, not an Aussie, but being Welsh player/ref with an English wife who also plays has made this an interesting day. Trying to explain to the kids how four referees with the benefit of video can get something wrong (per Nigel Owens) has been difficult.

    This is a long message, especially for my first, so apologies if it’s not the way threads should be written.

    In reviewing the laws and definitions and this and other threads I find I’m mostly confused around “Possession” terminology.

    Some people say that “control” is not used in regards to knock on law. But it is in the definition of Possession. A common argument is that “Catch it” is used in the “knock on” law definition. There seems to be a discrepancy there.

    Refs tend to ask the TMO about losing “control”, which some threads/forums are saying is irrelevant to knock ons. But it seems as if it can be relevant in terms of Possession.

    Possession is defined as being in the control of or attempting to gain control of....

    Possession therefore can be a player in control, or not in control, (or a used to define the team in possession).

    I feel intent can also be used to rule...

    So the example above of a line out jumper pushing the ball forward to one hand that taps it back. He never catches it before his scrum half gets it...

    What allows that to be permitted (or is it always a knock? I’m showing a blatant lack of knowledge evidently):
    Ruling: always in control and intended and therefore not losing “Possession”. Play on.

    Player throws ball forward to kick it, in laws theoretically a knock but evidently not.

    Ruling: it was always in Possession...I.e under control and a permitted act. Play on.

    Throwing a ball forward over a defender and regaining it.
    Ruling: In control and therefore a forward pass? Scrum.
    Presumably if it were unintended and not in control it would be OK (so long as he caught it eventually).

    Player juggles a catch forward but manages to kick it before it hits the ground (I.e intentionally kicked after unintentionally dropped onto the foot)
    Ruling: Knock on due to knock forward off arm and not caught before it hits the ground. Nothing to do with control. Scrum.

    As an aside, if a player is in the act of juggling to catch the ball, he is in Possession and therefore may be tackled even if he didn’t have control? I remember mid-1980s an Irish fullback fumbling past a couple of tacklers and eventually catching it and scoring or making a try.

  9. #59
    Coach/Referee

    Soc/Assoc
    None
    Grade
    Select Grade
    Join Date
    03 May 13
    Posts
    1,104

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    Welcome to the asylum!

  10. #60

    Referees in Australia
    SimonSmith's Avatar

    Soc/Assoc
    Central Australian Rugby Referees
    Grade
    B3
    Join Date
    27 Jan 04
    Posts
    8,703

    Default Re: Wales vs Eng - Knock on and Time back on after asking captain to speak to players

    This is one of those situations where the process worked, to (probably) the wrong outcome.

    PG said on-filed decision was a try.
    For the TMO to nix that, he has to see something clear and obvious.
    There is a lot of debate about the decision, which suggests to me that there was nothing C&O in error. So, we stick with the onfield decision.

    I wonder what would have happened if he had been able to ask " Try yes or no?" and given the tMO freedom?

    My other thought was whether there was a possible language issue? I'm not convinced that there is a necessity for two officials to not be able to converse in their mother tongue when something like this happens.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.
    Marcus Aurelius

    Man may do as he will; he may not will what he wills
    Arthur Schopenhauer

    Tullamore Dew, the Afghan Wigs, and many, many strippers - how to get over your ex. How true.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •