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Thread: Jalibert non-try

      
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    Default Jalibert non-try

    I came across this article suggesting a PT should have been awarded when Jalibert didn't score since Slade knocked the ball out of his hands.

    Is this a law change I've missed or is this article a load of proverbials?

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ref-w...l-for-england/

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    Quote Originally Posted by DocY View Post
    I came across this article suggesting a PT should have been awarded when Jalibert didn't score since Slade knocked the ball out of his hands.

    Is this a law change I've missed or is this article a load of proverbials?

    https://www.rugbypass.com/news/ref-w...l-for-england/
    It was definitely worth a secnd look (no doubt the TMO did offline).

    - You ARE allowed to knock the ball (in backwards direction) out of a ball carrier's hands
    - You are NOT allowed to deliberately knock a ball into touch / DBL..

    For me, Slade's intention was the former ----- and it just happened to go dead ----- so it was OK

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    It was definitely worth a secnd look (no doubt the TMO did offline).

    - You ARE allowed to knock the ball (in backwards direction) out of a ball carrier's hands
    - You are NOT allowed to deliberately knock a ball into touch / DBL..

    For me, Slade's intention was the former ----- and it just happened to go dead ----- so it was OK
    The article was saying that the logic of "if there is no realistic chance of regathering it is a penalty" should apply to a knock into touch/dbl just as it does in a knock-on. I'm not sure I see the logic of this to be honest, and the law certainly doesn't say that explicitly... What do people think? I would agree with you CR that you're quite entitled to slap the ball from the carrier as they are about to score, even if you have no realistic chance of gathering the ball (and why should you have to). Obviously you can't deliberately bat it into touch or dbl but that's a whole other ball of wax.

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    obviously you can only slap the ball backwards (from your perspective). Slapping forwards would be a deliberate knock on.

    so you don't see it much - normally the only chance you'll get to easily slap the ball backwards, is when you are chasing an opponent and catch up with them (like here).

    Was it Freddie Burns a while ago who messed around in the in goal and had the ball slapped from his hands by a French defender he hadn't seen coming?


    And I agree, no need to be able to recover it -a backwards slap is perfectly legal on it's own

    I think the article was wondering if Slade's slap was illegal as there was no realistic chance of it remaining on the field, so it amounted to a deliberate slap over the DBL...
    Last edited by crossref; 16-03-21 at 13:03.

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    Nothing wrong with Slades actions that I can see, he knocks the ball, backwards out of Jalibert's hands and that's fine for me.

    I can see the point he is trying to make regarding the tackle but I think if we start penalising that we'll never get a game on. For me Vunipola is the tackler and Curry has positioned himself as the jackler albeit he has maintained contact with the ball carrier as he is brought to ground.

    https://youtu.be/U5Nx4rUhNG8?t=2946

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    obviously you can only slap the ball backwards (from your perspective). Slapping forwards would be a deliberate knock on.

    so you don't see it much - normally the only chance you'll get to easily slap the ball backwards, is when you are chasing an opponent and catch up with them (like here).

    Was it Freddie Burns a while ago who messed around in the in goal and had the ball slapped from his hands by a French defender he hadn't seen coming?


    And I agree, no need to be able to recover it -a backwards slap is perfectly legal on it's own

    I think the article was wondering if Slade's slap was illegal as there was no realistic chance of it remaining on the field, so it amounted to a deliberate slap over the DBL...
    Ah OK yes, thanks CR, that would make more sense. It seems harsh - and counter-intuitive - for the article to try and argue that you can't slap away a potential try just because you're an inch from the DBL...

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    Nothing wrong with Slades actions that I can see, he knocks the ball, backwards out of Jalibert's hands and that's fine for me.

    I can see the point he is trying to make regarding the tackle but I think if we start penalising that we'll never get a game on. For me Vunipola is the tackler and Curry has positioned himself as the jackler albeit he has maintained contact with the ball carrier as he is brought to ground.

    https://youtu.be/U5Nx4rUhNG8?t=2946
    Thanks for the video link. Seems to me any contact Curry has with the blue player is incidental, and is not material to the tackle. He doesn't grasp him (wrap arms) so much as steady himself ready to jackal. There's some of the ref chatter in the background, saying that they've checked (possibly the decision, possibly some potential foul play).

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    What time was the incident?

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    According to law it doesn't matter if the ball goes forward in those circumstances as long as it's in relation to the ball carrier.
    Which I think is what was said?

    Law 11
    The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if :
    5.b.A player rips or knocks the ball from an opponent and the ball goes forward from the opponent’s hand or arm.

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    Default Re: Jalibert non-try

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    What time was the incident?
    About 28 minutes on the match clock

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