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Thread: France v Scotland

      
  1. #51

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by BikingBud View Post
    So why does the law say what it does: "or scored in a more advantageous position"?

    Where across the pitch is the dividing line between more or less advantageous?
    Player runs in to score in the corner.
    He sees no defenders so he goes to run infield to score under the posts.
    A defender suddenly pops out of nowhere and punches him.
    He falls down with the ball and in doing so inadvertently scores the try.

    Had he not been punched he would probably have scored the try under the posts, which would have been in a more advantageous position (because their kicker is rubbish and can only score from in front of the posts).

    So Penalty Try even though the try was scored (accidentally in the corner), because a try probably would have been scored in a more advantageous position if not for an act of foul play by an opponent.....and a

    Does that help?

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  2. #52

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Not see any hand off’s penalised, just forearm’s to the throat
    A Stuart Barnes article in the Times today is headlined: "Barnes didn't give Russell a fair trial after referral."

    The article continues in legalistic vein - is "neck area" the same as "on the neck" etc. He is arguing that the decision was wrong and the process flawed. He writes "What looked to my neutral eyes to be a fend below the neck ..." and later "Russell stands aside, unable to make any case."

    Does he seriously believe that players ought to be allowed to argue a case in their favour? What about Law 6.5?
    Within the playing enclosure:

      • The referee is the sole judge of fact and of law during a match.



    Should the opponents be allowed to state a case as well?!
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  3. #53

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    This is just Barnes. Hes never let a controversial suggestion get in the way of reality lets face it (cue story of his bosses saying he is employed to provoke controversy, not be factually correct, or somesuch.)

  4. #54

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by timmad View Post
    Yes, if we are to enforce full bind until the ball is out for the side not winning the scrum, then surely we should require the other team to remain bound, too.
    19.7.D

    The #8 only needs to be bound with one arm.

  5. #55

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by BikingBud View Post
    No really!

    We seem to be having a discussion on a referee's forum, where people come for advice from similar minded and more experienced people and to further their understanding, about penalty tries and the principle of where it may be deemed less advantageous and that is your contribution. Thanks very much for that insightful and helpful response.

    So by your reckoning, recounting all other queries about knocks on, tap penalties and marks, timing, scrummage and line out issues not to mention more complex problems about jumping tackles and dangerous tackles or the very hypothetical which will seldom if ever occur should not be raised because if we cannot decide we should not be refereeing. MUPPET!

    Do you tell the teams you're coaching to catch better and to run faster. With such insights you must be revolutionary!
    With regards to PTs 'scored in a more advantageous position', means closer to the center, and an easier place for the conversion kick. I don't think there needs to be a line drawn. As a referee you should be able to determine this. No need to be a dick about this from either party.

  6. #56

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    19.7.D

    The #8 only needs to be bound with one arm.
    We all know that. It’s the players and the international refs that don’t seem to know it. What we have been observing is non-compliance with 19.7d.

  7. #57
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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    We all know that. It’s the players and the international refs that don’t seem to know it. What we have been observing is non-compliance with 19.7d.
    We all know this, too, about scrum put-ins: Straight. The scrum-half may align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, thereby standing a shoulder-width closer to their side of the scrum. Ha ha

  8. #58

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by timmad View Post
    We all know this, too, about scrum put-ins: Straight. The scrum-half may align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, thereby standing a shoulder-width closer to their side of the scrum. Ha ha
    Like throwers stand with their upferld shoulder on the LoT then...

  9. #59

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Player runs in to score in the corner.
    He sees no defenders so he goes to run infield to score under the posts.
    A defender suddenly pops out of nowhere and punches him.
    He falls down with the ball and in doing so inadvertently scores the try.

    Had he not been punched he would probably have scored the try under the posts, which would have been in a more advantageous position (because their kicker is rubbish and can only score from in front of the posts).

    So Penalty Try even though the try was scored (accidentally in the corner), because a try probably would have been scored in a more advantageous position if not for an act of foul play by an opponent.....and a

    Does that help?
    In that scenario, the referee almost certainly would award the try where it was accidentally grounded.

    A more likely scenario: a Red try from rolling maul is imminent when Blue defenders deliberately collapse. Ref sticks out arm. Ball pops out to Red SH who goes blind side to score the try clearly several metres wider than the original try would have been scored. Decision?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #60

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    But if the ref has only stuck an arm out for PK advantage, he isnt thinking PT? Cos if he weas he would already have run under the posts?

    didds

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