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Thread: France v Scotland

      
  1. #71

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post

    (Of course there will always be one smart arse in the bar after when then game is lost by 1 point that argues the case!)


    and if that was the case what is the response?

    "I thought you'd all prefer the actual try and missed conversion than a PT and 7 points because the oppo cheated. Hard luck your kicker missed that touchline conversion. Hey ho".

    That'd work I'm sure...

  2. #72
    Rugby Club Member Rich_NL's Avatar

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    why would the ref not do so?
    Because you don't know if a try has been prevented until the ball is lost/dead - so how can you give a penalty try?

  3. #73

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    ??????

    thats not the criteria though is it?

    if due to foul play etc etc tec a PROBABLE try has been prevented etc. It doesnt require play to continue for maybe several minutes (think 40 phases of pick of go) to find out if a PT can be awarded?

    Surely that isnt the criteria you apply when reffing?

  4. #74
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    and if that was the case what is the response?

    "I thought you'd all prefer the actual try and missed conversion than a PT and 7 points because the oppo cheated. Hard luck your kicker missed that touchline conversion. Hey ho".

    That'd work I'm sure...
    Same response with anyone challenging a decision, and you can engage in a discussion as much as you like before hand if you what, but ultimately “That’s not how I saw it” can’t really argue with that

  5. #75

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Same response with anyone challenging a decision, and you can engage in a discussion as much as you like before hand if you what, but ultimately “That’s not how I saw it” can’t really argue with that
    That would disngenuous bordering on lying though.

    I agree with Didds. If we see what teh decision is, I'm not sure using spurious reasoning like "the game should be decided by the players" cuts it.
    And as Didds references: if we give the PT, the game was decided by a player. The lazy runner.
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  6. #76

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    just a reality check. Has anyone ever seen a PT awarded that has overruled a grounded try? Wonder if we're in angels on pinheads territory.

    Not saying it can't happen and not saying it shouldn't happen ... just asking, has it ever happened and/or will it ever happen?
    Last edited by Dickie E; 03-04-21 at 04:04.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  7. #77
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    I think some have missed my point, we’re talking about scenarios where we know, in law, that PT’s aren’t given, when they could technically be, but an actual try has been and that’s what we award. My point is that they’ve got a try, they’ve scored, very few are going to be unhappy with that.

    There may be an unwritten rule that if they score a try you don’t get a PT, or that the additional mandatory YC is punishment too far (especially on a technical penalty) so it gets managed (avoided?) by not awarding a PT. I don’t know if these are true, but it seems like it and we go a lot with expected behaviour.

    If someone argues the “could you have gone PT because ....” I wouldn’t expect you to give the thought processes above, they are invalid in law (unless you want to dig yourself a hole!), but they are in and around what we’re thinking, but it’s easy to counter if you want

  8. #78

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    After 45 years or so involvement in RU as a player, coach, very occassional (and crap!) ref, blazer and supporter across grass roots to elite, Ive never ever been aware of any unwritten rules/laws/understandfings/interpretations that a grounded try takes precendence over a PT award.

    My entire understandign is that if/when the ref sees a PT scenario (s)he just blows immediately.

    Clealrly others mileage differs.

  9. #79

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    After 45 years or so involvement in RU as a player, coach, very occassional (and crap!) ref, blazer and supporter across grass roots to elite, Ive never ever been aware of any unwritten rules/laws/understandfings/interpretations that a grounded try takes precendence over a PT award.

    My entire understandign is that if/when the ref sees a PT scenario (s)he just blows immediately.

    Clealrly others mileage differs.
    so you've seen it happen with a quality ref? If so, can you describe what happened?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #80
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: France v Scotland

    But as this thread shows, there are scenarios where a PT could (should?) be given, certainly in the ‘more advantageous position‘ scenario where it’s not, I think there would be a lot more PT’s if every ref applied the PT definition strictly.

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