Clarification 1 "021

[ctrainor]

just received this "clarification" that I didn't know I needed.
Assume this clarifies that you can bring a kicker on to take a shot at goal.
https://www.world.rugby/the-game/law...cation/2021/1/

[didds]

cue props falling on the floor holding a knee when "needed to".

[OB..]

I think that is an Obfuscation rather than a Clarification.

When the referee blows the whistle to award a PK, play stops. However that is what we call "zombie ball" because play can be restarted by the players without any action from the referee.

[crossref]

I think that WR could have said more
- in what circumstances should the referee declare the ball dead
- what is the signal by which teams know the ball is dead

[Balones]

Total fudge that will lead to more inconsistency and argument. Clarification 2-2007 wasn’t brilliant but had greater clarification than this. It is now superseded by this latest one. It is simply to pander to the professional referees who have been seeking more ‘power’. Doesn’t help the grassroots refs all. It was noticed during the 6 Nations that players were being introduced and re-introduced to the field by the fourth official whenever the referee blew his whistle and without any consultation. Perhaps it was this situation that gave rise to the request for clarification. ‘Why can’t he come onto the field ref”? “Because I say so”. - The worst way of justifying a decision.

[crossref]

I think WR need to go back to what is meant by 'dead' in all different circumstances, as it's not just PKs where there is a zombie ball. Also when ball goes into touch, and QTI is still a possibility, and when a mark is called, when a 22m dropout is awarded, and in some ways after a try, before the conversion.

All of those have come up from time to time as possibilities for bringing back YC players etc.

Perhaps the zombie-ball concept needs to be formally brought into the Law Book

Perhaps it would be good to have a specific signal for ball being completely dead, and subsitututions etc being allowed -- a double peep perhaps?

[Phil E]

What a total cluster****!

The award of an FK or PK does not in itself mean the ball is dead..... NOT DEAD
However, sometimes when an FK or PK occurs alongside an incident such as an injury the Referee will make the ball dead......DEAD
The referee needs to make the ball dead....REALLY DEAD

The definition of dead is: The ball is dead when the referee blows the whistle to stop play or following an unsuccessful conversion....

But the law says: The referee carries a whistle and blows it: g When a penalty, free-kick or scrum is awarded...DEAD

So if he blows his whistle to indicate a PK, FK is awarded, and the law says "the ball is dead when the referee blows his whistle", how do we know whether its dead or not?

And how does the referee do this:

The referee needs to make the ball dead.

Maybe we should carry a pistol and shoot the ball to indicate its really dead?

As clarifications go this one is a doozy

[didds]

the point made is that when the ball is dead in some situations the side with the ball decide when it is live.

In fact it seems more often than not... even at a lineout ie nota QTI the side throwing in can throw in as soonas they like - it just has to be straight and travel 5m. _Maybe_ a restart kick needs some sort of refs approval - or doesit?

Otherwise the only definite dead ball scenario I can think of that the ref controls is a scrum and kick off at each half.

PKs and FKs sort of histprically require a mark to be made... but Im not really sure its NEEDED - just that the kick has to be taken on or behind. a walked 10m Fk/PK possibly needs a mark I can see.

?

[crossref]

the point made is that when the ball is dead in some situations the side with the ball decide when it is live.

In fact it seems more often than not... even at a lineout ie nota QTI the side throwing in can throw in as soonas they like - it just has to be straight and travel 5m. _Maybe_ a restart kick needs some sort of refs approval - or doesit?

Otherwise the only definite dead ball scenario I can think of that the ref controls is a scrum and kick off at each half.

PKs and FKs sort of histprically require a mark to be made... but Im not really sure its NEEDED - just that the kick has to be taken on or behind. a walked 10m Fk/PK possibly needs a mark I can see.

?

and back in the day, even scrums got started without any intervention from the ref - teams just formed up and went for it... the game was never really dead.

[didds]

and back in the day, even scrums got started without any intervention from the ref - teams just formed up and went for it... the game was never really dead.

Very true CR. I don't even remember when it became ref controlled now... i can just recall doing both but cant think of a definitive time when end of one season we did our own thing and the start of the next season we didnt.