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Thread: Clarification 1 "021

      
  1. #21

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    It’s clear to the extent that players can come on to the pitch when the referee says they can. The question is, for the sake of consistency and clarity for all, when exactly can the referee say they can? The law saying that players can only come onto the pitch with permission of the referee has been around for a long time. When a referee gives permission varies from one referee to the next and this is the crux of the issue/argument.

  2. #22

    Referees in Australia
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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    the player can come on when I say he can. Thanks, WR, for having trust in me to do my job properly.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  3. #23

    Referees in England
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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    the player can come on when I say he can. Thanks, WR, for having trust in me to do my job properly.
    It’s not really a matter of trust. As a club coach I want you to say the same as the referee we had last week and the referee we will have next week. We can’t have you every week!

  4. #24

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    the player can come on when I say he can. Thanks, WR, for having trust in me to do my job properly.
    what is 'properly' ?

    I posed a load of scenarios in #17, if two refs disagree about the answers, who is to say which one is doing it properly?

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    It’s not really a matter of trust. As a club coach I want you to say the same as the referee we had last week and the referee we will have next week. We can’t have you every week!
    It occurs to me that this is the purpose behind clarifications surely? However this one is the exception it seems.

  6. #26

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    About three years ago I observed the situation when one team was awarded a penalty. The team asked if their YC could come back on. The ref said it depended on what they were going to do. Why asked the team. The ref asked why they wanted to know. The YC returner was the club captain/player/coach as well as main kicker. The team wanted him to decide what he wanted to do. (One score in it - three to draw.) It became apparent that the ref would allow him on to take a kick at goal but not a kick for touch. With no reasoning other than he never did allow it before lineouts. So he came on to kick for goal and the game was drawn. The opposition, especially the coaches, went apoplectic. Game drawn and the opposition missed promotion. The previous week their kicker hadn’t been allowed on. (Why differentiate between kicks? Do members of the forum do this?)

    That is merely one of hundreds of inconsistencies that I have records of and why I feel quite strongly about it. On such refereeing decisions people can lose their jobs/livelihoods. It should not depend on the ‘because I say so decision of the referee’. At the very grassroots level it may not be important. If a player/coach makes a decision that costs them their job then that’s unfortunate for them. If you are the referee that makes an unnecessary decision that costs someone their job how would you feel? When to allow a player on to the pitch is a decision that does not need need to be a random decision base on personal interpretation like so many of the other laws. Clear guidance would be an aid to ‘referee protection’.

  7. #27
    Rugby Club Member Treadmore's Avatar

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    In your example:

    1. Did the ref make the ball dead? (Clarification says the ref needed to do so to allow the return of the player.)

    2. Was there another incident like an injury that caused the ref to make the ball dead? (Clarification makes clear such incidents can allow players to come onto the pitch with refs permission.)

    If neither 1 or 2 applied in your example then the ref concerned now has a clarification to help them in future.

  8. #28

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    ^^ what he said.

  9. #29

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    Different referees have different criteria for making the ball dead which in turn leads to inconsistency from one week/game to another.

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Clarification 1 "021

    Balones is right.

    In Balones scenario I would let the YC player return without hesitation, whatever he wants to do, and at the same time therefore let the oppo do any subs or YC returns they need.

    Other refs will allow nothing at all.

    According to the clarification all approaches are now correct as it's up to the ref

    Clarifications are supposed to remove inconsistencies, not enshrine them
    Last edited by crossref; 2 Weeks Ago at 07:04.

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