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Thread: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

      
  1. #21
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    If you follow the flowchart then the degree of force isn’t considered until the point of deciding on sanction, so minimum is PK. If in the ladies game they had decided just PK then fine, I could understand it - but it looks off piste to me

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    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    if a head clash occurs then yes (IMO). It is reckless. Sanction will then depend on mitigation and/or degree of force
    This was my understanding, and happy to adjust my approach .... if we’re all being consistent!

  3. #23

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Of the RCs Ive seen this season none of them I'd say were a deliberate targetting of the head. So they are ALL accidental.
    no, it is not that binary.

    A deliberate head clash would be a Liverpool kiss (are we allowed to say that anymore?).

    An accidental head clash would be a tackler tackling low but ball carrier is otherwise on the way down (eg 2nd tackler) and head clash occurs.

    There is huge range of 'reckless' and 'careless' that falls in between the 2.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    It certainly seems undesirable that the difference between mandated red card and play on is such a fine line of referee judgement. A headbutt, a punch, a spear tackle are all very C&O, now there's a line between "you were going for the tackle, play on" and "you should have tried to tackle better, RC".

  5. #25

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    If you follow the flowchart then the degree of force isn’t considered until the point of deciding on sanction, so minimum is PK. If in the ladies game they had decided just PK then fine, I could understand it - but it looks off piste to me
    well the ref went back to the scrum fro Italy for an England forward pass that occurred after the collision, so it wasnt even deemed worthy of a PK.

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    no, it is not that binary.

    A deliberate head clash would be a Liverpool kiss (are we allowed to say that anymore?).

    An accidental head clash would be a tackler tackling low but ball carrier is otherwise on the way down (eg 2nd tackler) and head clash occurs.

    There is huge range of 'reckless' and 'careless' that falls in between the 2.

    yes. But as i said "Of the RCs Ive seen this season none of them I'd say were a deliberate targetting of the head.".

    Ive seen no liverpool kisses. Ive seen no tackles aimed at thighs that the ball carrier has dropped their head extremely low.

    Ive seen upright tackles with ball carrier staying upright ending with head collision. But none of THOSE I perceive as deliberate targetting of the head and thus ALL accidental.

  7. #27

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    So after all the above Im still no clearer as to this new framework - namely whether it was in operation, and what the outcome of that framework would/should have been. Especially in the light of the Gloucester RC on the same weekend.

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    But none of THOSE I perceive as deliberate targetting of the head and thus ALL accidental.
    sorry but again no. The point is that just because it is not deliberate does not make it accidental
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    its accidental in the same vein that the Italian tackle was deemed accidental by the TMO, and agreed with by the ref.

    Its not accidental that the tackler's tackle position was high.

    so what DOES this new framework say shoud have happened and how does that reflect against the glos RC ?
    Last edited by didds; 3 Weeks Ago at 09:04.

  10. #30

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    Default Re: Head clash, with force, "accidental" = no card? women's 6N

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    So after all the above Im still no clearer as to this new framework - namely whether it was in operation, and what the outcome of that framework would/should have been. Especially in the light of the Gloucester RC on the same weekend.
    the attached is dated 10th March. What was date of women's game?

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...GwqZaxfMOQ2bMn
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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