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Thread: England v France - 24/4/2921

      
  1. #31

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    spot on marc.

    allied then to any proposed changes being actually tested somewhere instead of just globally applied - to then learn the laws of unintended consequences AGAIN. Fair enough trials do occur more often in the past.

    So that wont happen then!

    Others mileage may vary.

  2. #32

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    You were not hung drawn and quartered for that. The point was, and still is, that WR said there were no changes just clarifications.
    Quite correct, we were repeatedly told there were no changes to any laws in the simplified version of the law book (2018).

    However as has been pointed out there were unintended consequences, and I thought we all agreed on that. Obviously we are now 3 or 4 years down the line and new referees are not able to easily access the 2017 law book or are aware of the no change notice.

    So WR have completely buggered it up. God knows what happened in the meetings to simplify the law book

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  3. #33

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    I dont really understand why, at the time of the rewrite, World Rugby needed to insist that there were no changes. Who would have cared if they'd said we've abreviated the law book and there are some minor changes as a result? What was obvious to everyone only served to undermine the credibility of WR and the new lawbook. Not content with the first balls up however, they now seem intent on compounding the problem by quietly retweaking the laws, hoping no one will notice.

    Mind you, who cares about the minor laws of the game? It's not as if during the six nations the two most well respected refs in the game couldn't agree on what constituted a knock-on!!

  4. #34

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    I have never said anyone lied ! But there was lots of confusion

    Indeed one of the authors was quoted in an interview as saying that - while the brief was to make no changes - they did actually make changes (discussed here before)

    But - here's the thing - despite what you read in the press release about no changes : actually reading the text showed that they DID make changes. It was plain as daylight!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    I dont really understand why, at the time of the rewrite, World Rugby needed to insist that there were no changes. Who would have cared if they'd said we've abreviated the law book and there are some minor changes as a result? What was obvious to everyone only served to undermine the credibility of WR and the new lawbook. Not content with the first balls up however, they now seem intent on compounding the problem by quietly retweaking the laws, hoping no one will notice.
    Exactly

  5. #35

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    (plus every time they settled an ambiguity "it meant X" then all the people who had previously understood the Law Book to mean Y saw that as a change.
    Of course if you thought all along that it meant X, you merely saw it as no change, but a vindication!)
    Last edited by crossref; 07-05-21 at 12:05.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    I have never said anyone lied !
    WR said NO changes.

    You said there are deliberate changes.

    If your statement is true, then WR clearly did not tell the truth or to put it simply: They lied.

    So, yes you did say it.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    Quite correct, we were repeatedly told there were no changes to any laws in the simplified version of the law book (2018).

    However as has been pointed out there were unintended consequences, and I thought we all agreed on that. Obviously we are now 3 or 4 years down the line and new referees are not able to easily access the 2017 law book or are aware of the no change notice.

    So WR have completely buggered it up. God knows what happened in the meetings to simplify the law book

    I agree 100% but Crossref was, and is, claiming some changes were intentional. That implies something clearly sinsister.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Jz558 View Post
    I dont really understand why, at the time of the rewrite, World Rugby needed to insist that there were no changes. Who would have cared if they'd said we've abreviated the law book and there are some minor changes as a result? What was obvious to everyone only served to undermine the credibility of WR and the new lawbook. Not content with the first balls up however, they now seem intent on compounding the problem by quietly retweaking the laws, hoping no one will notice.
    100% agree.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    (plus every time they settled an ambiguity "it meant X" then all the people who had previously understood the Law Book to mean Y saw that as a change.
    Of course if you thought all along that it meant X, you merely saw it as no change, but a vindication!)
    Missing the point beautifully (Intentionally?).

    A clarification, by definition, will mean that things that are read by some one way will now be not so. That is not a change that is clearing things u pto correct the ambiguity. Not the same as a change at all.

  9. #39

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    I agree 100% but Crossref was, and is, claiming some changes were intentional. That implies something clearly sinsister.

    - - - Updated - - -



    100% agree.
    of course it's not sinister.

    it just means that WR's left hand didn't know what WR's right hand was doing. We never heard the authors saying nothing had changed (the reverse- Tappe Henning said on that podcast that things had changed). It was just the press relesse really


    Let's take just a few example : the introduced some NEW things into the 2018 Law Book , that just weren't in the 2017 book

    7.3 Advantage must not be applied and the referee must blow the whistle immediately when [...]
    e. A quick throw, free-kick or penalty is taken incorrectly
    Law 9 Foul Play
    9.24 A ball-carrier is permitted to hand off an opponent provided excessive force is not used
    Sanction PK
    14.11 The tackle ends when :
    a. A ruck is formed.
    b. A player on their feet from either team gains possession of the ball and moves
    away or passes or kicks the ball.
    c. The ball leaves the tackle area.
    d. The ball is unplayable
    How does brand new text get introduced accidentally?

    for details of these any many other changes -- our old friend
    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...it?usp=sharing
    Last edited by crossref; 07-05-21 at 14:05.

  10. #40

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    Default Re: England v France - 24/4/2921


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