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Thread: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

      
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    Rugby Club Member Akira Nonaka's Avatar

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    Question When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    I am wondering why we have 11.3 intentional knock-on rule for a long time and want to know the origin.
    The background of my questions is I personally think that this rule is not necessary since very often it is not applied correctly. For example, this is the clip from the Japanese top-league. I cannot think the blue 15 knocked the ball INTENTIONALLY.


    https://youtu.be/1erCu9f2cFk?t=81

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    I'm OK with that card.

    He was in position to regather the ball, it went forward and denied Red their ability to play what they wanted in the red zone. Sometimes in the law book "intentional" means a little more than deliberate.

    OB will no doubt be along shortly to give chapter, verse, and history.
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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    card & PT OK for me. Blue #15 was never in a position to realistically catch the ball and just stuck out his hand.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Nonaka View Post
    I personally think that this rule is not necessary since very often it is not applied correctly.
    It is in my personal opinion that I think that for me that the possible fact that a law might not be refereed correctly is not a reason for removing it. It is a reason for applying in correctly. Personally speaking.

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    And its how it is universally interpreted and applied - nobody can be in any real doubt.

    I personally think being dominant at a scrum is sufficient for the purposes of disrupting the oppo ball hugely, or even winning the ball. I really dont see continuous PKs for merely being strong with a big shove as "correct". It turns scrums into penalty machines for one thing rather than being a low key method of getting the ball back into play. But... its how its interpreted and blown currently and nobody can be in any doubt about that so I just accept it - it doesnt fit my personal thoughts but it is what it is.
    Last edited by didds; 30-04-21 at 11:04.

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    OB will no doubt be along shortly to give chapter, verse, and history.
    You called?

    The earliest printed laws from 1845 listed several offences, including the knock-on, but no sanctions. The assumption is that play was restarted with a scrum.

    At that time there were no officials to run the game - it was down to the players themselves. The modern equivalent is primary school children playing tag in the playground. They agree the rules themselves - no teachers are involved.

    By 1889 the law prescribed a "free kick by way of penalty" for certain offences. "Wilfully offending" became such an offence, and covered the deliberate knock-on.

    Current law is specific:-
    11.3 A player must not intentionally knock the ball forward with hand or arm. Sanction: Penalty.
    If an intercept attempt is reckless or unrealistic, referees are expected to treat it as deliberate.
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    Rugby Club Member Akira Nonaka's Avatar

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    Arrow Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

     
    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post

    If an intercept attempt is reckless or unrealistic, referees are expected to treat it as deliberate.
    Thank you very much for the information. The origin of the intentional knock-on is pretty old than I thought.

    I still think even an intercept attempt "looks" reckless or unrealistic, encouraging that kind of difference play will make rugby more fun and exiting rather than penalizing it.

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Nonaka View Post
     

    Thank you very much for the information. The origin of the intentional knock-on is pretty old than I thought.

    I still think even an intercept attempt "looks" reckless or unrealistic, encouraging that kind of difference play will make rugby more fun and exiting rather than penalizing it.
    I think rescinding that law would lead to problems. If all you could gain would be giving away a scrum, why would that be more exciting? Or do you find scrums more exciting than open play?

    However I don't think we need worry. I see no prospect of the law being changed. Not even Stephen Jones is calling for a change.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Akira Nonaka View Post


    https://youtu.be/1erCu9f2cFk?t=81
    To tell you the truth, I do not think the ball went forward relative to the ground

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    Default Re: When and why the intentional knock-on rule was added to the rugby laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by Not Kurt Weaver View Post
    To tell you the truth, I do not think the ball went forward relative to the ground
    Interesting. Does it need to? Or does changing the flight of the ball so that it is going "more forwards" meet requirements?

    Definition here for reference:

    Knock-on: When a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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