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Thread: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    but why even mention an objection?

    Surely, this would suffice:

    If the referee becomes aware that a team has too many players, the referee orders the captain of that team to reduce the number appropriately. The score at the time remains unaltered. Sanction: Penalty.
    Possibly because until the "captain's challenge" appeared in the trials. This is the only instance when a captain my bring a "wrongdoing" to the referee's attention?

    "ref He's offiside!"

    "Thanks Captain leave the referrering to me !"*

    as opposed to:

    "Ref they have 16 players"

    Ref counts up to check.

    Juat a thought.


    * Amend to suit yopur own style.

  2. #12

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    They are required to "get back and remain" not "remain". The two are not the same.
    so where's the Law saying they are required to "get back and remain" ?

    There isn't one. The Law just says remain, which (obviously) includes get back and remain.

    kinda my point really. If they are required to get back and remain then there is no quick tap possible
    Last edited by crossref; 4 Weeks Ago at 18:05.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    so where's the Law saying they are required to "get back and remain" ?

    There isn't one. The Law just says remain, which (obviously) includes get back and remain.

    kinda my point really. If they are required to get back and remain then there is no quick tap possible
    Offside: A positional offence meaning a player can take no part in the game without being liable to sanction.

    10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
    (my colouring).

    A player is not penalised merely for being offside. He must be offside AND ... something else.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #14

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    lots of oddities. This one from Law 3:

    A team may make an objection to the referee about the number of players in their opponents’ team. If a team has too many players, the referee orders the captain of that team to reduce the number appropriately. The score at the time of the objection remains unaltered. Sanction: Penalty.


    is it reasonable to infer that the bit in bold only happens if an objection is made? The underlined word would suggest so.
    bugger me if this didn't happen to me today ... 1st time in 30 years!
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #15

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Offside: A positional offence meaning a player can take no part in the game without being liable to sanction.

    10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
    (my colouring).

    A player is not penalised merely for being offside. He must be offside AND ... something else.
    exactly so - offside players in general play do NOT have to get back behind the kicker (merely not advance, and not interfere with play)

    So at a PK where's the Law that says players must get back behind the kick?

  6. #16
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    Question Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    exactly so - offside players in general play do NOT have to get back behind the kicker (merely not advance, and not interfere with play)

    So at a PK where's the Law that says players must get back behind the kick?
    Looking at 10.4.c doesn’t the quick tap put the teammates offside (emphasis mine)?
    10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
    a. Interferes with play; or
    b. Moves forwards towards the ball; or
    c. Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate ...


    If so would make it only a “must” for a PK taken as place kick or punt to touch and kicker’s team must be back behind except for someone holding the ball if needed for place kick since we have the specific scenario listed . For a tap and go, get back onside and do not interfere?

  7. #17

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Volun-selected View Post
    Looking at 10.4.c doesn’t the quick tap put the teammates offside (emphasis mine)?
    10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
    a. Interferes with play; or
    b. Moves forwards towards the ball; or
    c. Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate ...


    If so would make it only a “must” for a PK taken as place kick or punt to touch and kicker’s team must be back behind except for someone holding the ball if needed for place kick since we have the specific scenario listed . For a tap and go, get back onside and do not interfere?
    yes that's way we ref it.

    the issue I was pointing out is that
    - for every kick other than a quick tap, all players are required to get behind the kicker.
    - the law that requires them to get behind has to be 20.10 , there is no other law
    But then 20.10 would seem to apply to ALL PKs, it doesn't give any exclusion for quick taps


    the law SHOULD read something like 12.18 - the equivalent law for 22m DO
    Last edited by crossref; 2 Weeks Ago at 17:05.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Volun-selected View Post
    Looking at 10.4.c doesn’t the quick tap put the teammates offside (emphasis mine)?
    10.4 An offside player may be penalised, if that player:
    a. Interferes with play; or
    b. Moves forwards towards the ball; or
    c. Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate ...


    If so would make it only a “must” for a PK taken as place kick or punt to touch and kicker’s team must be back behind except for someone holding the ball if needed for place kick since we have the specific scenario listed . For a tap and go, get back onside and do not interfere?
    For me, you are not reading the whole paragraph and coming to an incorrect understanding, misled by poor drafting. Para 10.4c has always been about the 10m offside Law, indeed it is only recently that "behind an onside teammate" has been included. It does NOT mean that every offside player at a kick has to retire behind an on-side teamate, otherwise what is the point of 10.4b?

    The full wording of 10.4c is:

    Was in front of a team-mate who kicked the ball and fails to retire immediately behind an onside team-mate or an imaginary line across the field 10 metres on that player’s side from where the ball is caught or lands, even if it hits a goal post or crossbar first. If this involves more than one player, then the player closest to where the ball lands or is caught is the one penalised. This is known as the 10-metre law and still applies if the ball touches or is played by an opponent but not when the kick is charged down.


    So (my interpretation): if you were offside at the kick and are within 10m of where the ball is going to be caught/land (even if hitting the goal post or crossbar) then you must either get behind an on-side player or retire 10m from where the ball is going to land. (Don't forget a kick can go much less than 10m itself, so this is where getting behind an on-side player comes into play.

    If you were offside at the kick, and not within 10m of where it is going to be caught/land, then 10.4b applies - do not MOVE FORWARD towards the ball.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    The 2014 law book made it clear that it is not a 10m circle round the player catching the ball, it is 10 metre rectangle all the way across the pitch.
    Under the old 11.4 (b) a player in that rectangle could not be put onside by an advancing onside player.

  10. #20

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    Default Re: 20.10 behind the kicker at a PK

    Quote Originally Posted by Camquin View Post
    The 2014 law book made it clear that it is not a 10m circle round the player catching the ball, it is 10 metre rectangle all the way across the pitch.
    Under the old 11.4 (b) a player in that rectangle could not be put onside by an advancing onside player.
    Sorry that you interpreted it that way. It is indeed shorthand for 'within 10m all the way across the field of play', as most referees have forgotten that it could ever have been read as a 10m circle.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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