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Thread: Hand-off heights

      
  1. #11
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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    Back in 1970 I went to Leicester to watch the touring Fijians play East Midlands. I remember their winger, Tikoisuva, putting his hand on the top of his opponent's head with a straight arm and using it as a pivot for running round him. His opponent could not get hold of anything and fell flat on his face.

    I saw nothing dangerous in that manoeuvre. If a would-be tackler is coming in low, the top of the head is about all you can contact.

    Striking with the hand is, of course, different.
    Except that the protocols now deem any contact with the head in a tackle situation to be foul play. FOr me it is absure that I can make contact with your head if I am carrying the ball , but not if you are carrying the ball.

    A hand off the the head may not be deemed "dangerous"(etc) enough to issue a red or yellow card but it should be subject to the same consideration were it to be the tackler who made the contact.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    tbf the current protocols for dealing with head contact aren't really in the Laws either, they are protocols.
    But yes, it seems to me the inconsistency can't last.

    That situation where one player (or one team) are making continual use of aggressive hand offs : that can be very hard to manage, I think, but the 'excessive force' phrase is useful, the Law explicitly mentions that, so you do have the power to judge that a hand off used excessive force, and sanction it.

    Agreed with the first paragraph.

    For me it is cotact wit hthe head and should be judged within the protocols / guideline for such.

  3. #13

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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Over the years I've penalised plenty of players for what I've deemed to be excessive force and a hit to the face where they've claimed it is a hand off! It is a case of if you see it, you just know. Usually performed by a deliberate bully!
    I am struggling to see how I could justify penalising a ball carrier who happens to put his palm on the top of a would be tackler's head in a genuine attempt to fend off a low tackle.
    Ciaran Trainor

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    Over the years I've penalised plenty of players for what I've deemed to be excessive force and a hit to the face where they've claimed it is a hand off! It is a case of if you see it, you just know. Usually performed by a deliberate bully!
    I am struggling to see how I could justify penalising a ball carrier who happens to put his palm on the top of a would be tackler's head in a genuine attempt to fend off a low tackle.
    I understand that. But why can the ball carrier do it where as the tackler cannot? The head is a "red-zone" (for want of a better term) but not if you are a ball carrier. A fend of is never "gentle". The risks of head contact in an agressive scenario are the concern. Those risks do not change when you bring the question of which player is the ball carrier.

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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    The ball carrier has virtually no choice when a tackler comes in low. As long as he does not deliver a fend as a sort of punch, I see no problem.

    The tackler has multiple choices. if he choses to go high and makes contact with the head, that is at his own risk of foul play.
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    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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  6. #16

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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    I think the "excessive force" law , introduced in 2018 , is the key to this, gives us the tool to manage hand offs

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    The ball carrier has virtually no choice when a tackler comes in low. As long as he does not deliver a fend as a sort of punch, I see no problem.

    The tackler has multiple choices. if he choses to go high and makes contact with the head, that is at his own risk of foul play.
    If that is the case then the law needs changing. To allow one player to make contact with the head but not another is lacking consistency.

    Either ban contact with the head full stop. OR allow contact and leave the referee to decide as to whether it should be considered dangerous play.

  8. #18

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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Quote Originally Posted by Marc Wakeham View Post
    If that is the case then the law needs changing. To allow one player to make contact with the head but not another is lacking consistency.

    Either ban contact with the head full stop. OR allow contact and leave the referee to decide as to whether it should be considered dangerous play.
    The two situations are NOT equivalent. Therefore they do NOT require exactly the same treatment.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
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  9. #19

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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post

    The tackler has multiple choices. if he choses to go high and makes contact with the head, that is at his own risk of foul play.
    Except for the pick & drive situation a few metres out. Often the defender is only presented with the top of the ball carrier's head
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  10. #20

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    Default Re: Hand-off heights

    there was an example of this in the last round of english games (i don't remember which, perhaps the not nots vs Exeter). near the line a ball carrier was clobbered in the head by a defender, the officials said that it was a fair attempt to tackle and there was nothing else he could have done so play on.
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