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Thread: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerCraig View Post
    Australia v France. Most ridiculous decision, and not entirely the ref's fault
    I understand your frustration

    This is a problem that Rugby Union as brought upon itself by

    1. all but removing the referee's judgement
    2. having a system where outcomes are judged and intent is ignored
    3. trying to apply static, cookie-cutter flow diagrams & assessments to a dynamic game with complex laws.

    This decision wasn't even a PK in my book, but the referee in this case was given almost no choice but to follow a series of stupid, ill-advised, and fundamentally flawed protocols, down a path towards making the wrong decision.

    I feel very sorry for Ben O'Keeffe (as well as Brendon Pickerill) because they have effectively been thrown under the bus for doing what their instructions tell them to do.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 23-07-21 at 06:07.
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  2. #42

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    Spot on Ian

  3. #43

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    I understand your frustration

    This is a problem that Rugby Union as brought upon itself by

    1. all but removing the referee's judgement
    2. having a system where outcomes are judged and intent is ignored
    3. trying to apply static, cookie-cutter flow diagrams & assessments to a dynamic game with complex laws.

    This decision wasn't even a PK in my book, but the referee in this case was given almost no choice but to follow a series of stupid, ill-advised, and fundamentally flawed protocols, down a path towards making the wrong decision.

    I feel very sorry for Ben O'Keeffe (as well as Brendon Pickerill) because they have effectively been thrown under the bus for doing what their instructions tell them to do.
    this is true - but the converse is that for vast majority of incidents where previously we might have had different refs using diff judgement and arriving at diff decisions ..... now we have a very high degree of consistency,.

    so you pays your money and makes the choice : ref discretion or consistency ? Obviosuly both are good, but we can't completely have both

    it may be that we have to nudge the pendulum a tiny touch, but I don't think rugby is fundamentally in a bad place in this.

  4. #44

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    it looks like "clear & obvious" is from a time long gone.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #45

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    it looks like "clear & obvious" is from a time long gone.
    Yep, along with "you know it's a red straight away". Seriously if you have to watch in frame by frame from 50 angles , it's not yellow let alone red

  6. #46
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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    Quote Originally Posted by TigerCraig View Post
    Yep, along with "you know it's a red straight away". Seriously if you have to watch in frame by frame from 50 angles , it's not yellow let alone red

    With the advent of camera angles to show what the ref could not see, of course this concept is dead. The whole point of cameras / tmos it to gt the call right (that is to pick up what the reff NATURALLY misses. If the referee does not see something material "you know it's a red straight away" is clearly no longer valid.

    Also comething that is clear and obviose from the referees angle is anything but from the other side of the pitch and "Vicky Veruca".

  7. #47
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    My biggest problem with all this is the end result and attitude in the community game to decisions. The expectation at the top is for decisions to be correct, and they are scrutinised in game, post game (sometimes with officials seemingly thrown under a bus) and of course the media / internet pulling at every thread - end result it’s becoming the norm to challenge every decision a hundred times over (often technically incorrect, thank you ‘experts’) that attitude doesn’t work for me with one glance in the sticks.

    Of course we all want to get it right, and we’ll all the make the best decision we can (I certainly won’t be going red unless 100%) but the grass roots players, coaches and fans need to keep their expectations and attitudes right.

  8. #48

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    I don't think the community game is really impacted .
    We have no replays, no TMO, few spectators, many of the people present will have had a worse view than the ref did, everyone knows the ref can only give what he saw.

    I don't think much has really changed for us

  9. #49
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    It’s more attitude to decisions I’m worried about, there’s so much whinging and whining on social media about decisions that I worry that will be deemed to be ‘ok’ in our game. Much like the rolling around and feigning injury that has become common in kids football.

    I hope you are right though.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: That's done it for me. Goodbye rugby I'm out

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    My biggest problem with all this is the end result and attitude in the community game to decisions. The expectation at the top is for decisions to be correct, and they are scrutinised in game, post game (sometimes with officials seemingly thrown under a bus) and of course the media / internet pulling at every thread - end result it’s becoming the norm to challenge every decision a hundred times over (often technically incorrect, thank you ‘experts’) that attitude doesn’t work for me with one glance in the sticks.

    Of course we all want to get it right, and we’ll all the make the best decision we can (I certainly won’t be going red unless 100%) but the grass roots players, coaches and fans need to keep their expectations and attitudes right.
    Indeed that is where C&O is still totally relevant. We see one angle and make a call. I have had the fortune (miss?) to be filmed on a few occasions. One call I remember was a tip tackle (not long after the Warburton World cup one) It looked bad and I pulled the red card out. Not one person argued about the call. The vido showed it was a yellow. I had the chance to discuss it with the coach of the sent off player he agreed it was yellow but looked all the way a red. "Such is life" was his reply. "Maybe the lad will not take the risk next time! was his follow up. Sothe: " You know when it's red" is not always true. But it is a fair measure for us in the sticks. No to at the top when it is easier to get it right.

    I think generally if we are honest and open with players and coaches MOST will buy it, at least once their natural dissapointment subsides.

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