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Thread: Springboks v Lions

      
  1. #1

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    Default Springboks v Lions

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIAcDwH7xyo

    Disclaimers:
    1. this isn't the best quality video but all I can find
    2. Nic Berry isn't my favourite referee but obviously well considered to get this Test. I think he gets panicky when big calls needed.

    There's a penalty awarded to Red at 22 minutes game time which is a BIG call. Game evenly poised and an early try to Green could have swung the game.

    Was the penalty awarded to Red 4 a good call or does Itoje have knees resting on tackled player? There's a replay at 22:26
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    IMO...

    PK#1. Red 7 had the first attempt to jackle, but forearms on the ground so he was not supporting his bodyweight. Ruck formed.

    PK#2. Red 4 was second in with hands to an already formed ruck

    PK#3. Red 4 was kneeling on the Green tackled player, so not supporting his bodyweight anyway.

    That should have been a clear PK to Green for any one of those three reasons.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    IMO...

    PK#1. Red 7 had the first attempt to jackle, but forearms on the ground so he was not supporting his bodyweight. Ruck formed.

    PK#2. Red 4 was second in with hands to an already formed ruck


    PK#3. Red 4 was kneeling on the Green tackled player, so not supporting his bodyweight anyway.

    That should have been a clear PK to Green for any one of those three reasons.
    1 - red 7 was being played by a green player and that was why he went off feet. Would have been harsh to have penalised.
    2 - difficult one for players and ref. The red 7 and green player had rolled to side so it was not obvious a ruck had actually formed. No comms from ref. But strictly speaking yes.
    3 - Initially hands went on ball before knees went on player so perhaps that was why the ref gave penalty to red. Again no comms from ref. He could have got away with having a hands off call and play on if he wasn’t sure.

    Overall didn’t think it was a penalty to red even when watching it live and at full speed.

    A review of this refereeing performance would have given me plenty to write about in my report and discuss with the ref. Inconsistencies, communication and positioning (he missed far too many things that required TMO input) would be high on the agenda.

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Thank you, Balones. I find your points about communication most interesting. In RFU-land we have become used to a constant stream of instruction/comment/advice even from the very best, eg WB, LP. By comparison the S Hemisphere refs seem almost silent, eg Jaco Peyper (a very good ref but was he at his best for SA A v Lions?) and Nic Berry.
    Do we need a halfway house?

  6. #6

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    I didn't notice many secondary signals either when he was giving penalties which for me is basic stuff.
    Ciaran Trainor

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by dickell View Post
    Thank you, Balones. I find your points about communication most interesting. In RFU-land we have become used to a constant stream of instruction/comment/advice even from the very best, eg WB, LP. By comparison the S Hemisphere refs seem almost silent, eg Jaco Peyper (a very good ref but was he at his best for SA A v Lions?) and Nic Berry.
    Do we need a halfway house?
    When advising/coaching refs I try to emphasise ‘appropriate communication at appropriate times’ rather than mention quantity. Each game requires different amounts depending on the nature (sometimes level) of the game.

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    When advising/coaching refs I try to emphasise ‘appropriate communication at appropriate times’ rather than mention quantity. Each game requires different amounts depending on the nature (sometimes level) of the game.
    Thank you. Yes, but there does seem to be a lack of uniformity even among the best.

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    disclaimer: South african

    due to covid+, neutral TMO is out and a local ref is appointed:
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...ons-v-21131840
    no big deal, except for Lions coach Warren Gatland making a huge fuss about it.

    come game time, TMO makes about 6/7 decisions, every single one of them goes the way of the Lions. Some of them marginal, others clear cut. when referee asks for C&O to reverse decicision, the evidence is mud.
    I could list them and reference them, but all over the web already.

    rub of the green, or clear pressure put on by coach/media? Should there be protection from World Rugby against this?

  10. #10

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by shebeen View Post
    disclaimer: South african

    due to covid+, neutral TMO is out and a local ref is appointed:
    https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/...ons-v-21131840
    no big deal, except for Lions coach Warren Gatland making a huge fuss about it.

    come game time, TMO makes about 6/7 decisions, every single one of them goes the way of the Lions. Some of them marginal, others clear cut. when referee asks for C&O to reverse decicision, the evidence is mud.
    I could list them and reference them, but all over the web already.

    rub of the green, or clear pressure put on by coach/media? Should there be protection from World Rugby against this?
    WR made a massive error, and it's totally unfair to MJ.

    They have Mathieu Raynal and Ben Okeef both there, as they are reffing #2 and #3 - one of them should be TMO, and somone else come in as AR.

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