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Thread: Springboks v Lions

      
  1. #41

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by pedr View Post
    The ref called 'use it' as he determined the ball was won and available at the back of a stationary scrum, and might have done so just before or just as the 9 was moving away. Once he'd called it, I think he had to penalise the push, which didn't start until after the call. It was definitely tight - and the call probably happened after the 9 had decided he was going to back away.
    Sanction for not using it is a scrum

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    The try by Am... Nigel Owens was saying he wouldn't have given it because Am didn't have control. I thought it was just downwards pressure? I tried checking to 2021 law book but it just talks about "grounding the ball" and there's no definition of what this mean. Puzzled!?

  3. #43

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    AIUI...

    downward pressure is when the ball - not held - is on the ground in goal - the scorer must apply downward pressure to the ball.

    For a held/carried ball it only has to touch the ground - no pressure required. The ball carrier however must basically be on control of the ball.



    Another day, another ref and that SA try may have been an on field no try decsion, and henshaw's an on field try decsion.

    thems the rubs.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    AIUI...

    downward pressure is when the ball - not held - is on the ground in goal - the scorer must apply downward pressure to the ball.

    For a held/carried ball it only has to touch the ground - no pressure required. The ball carrier however must basically be on control of the ball.



    Another day, another ref and that SA try may have been an on field no try decsion, and henshaw's an on field try decsion.

    thems the rubs.
    Ah OK, thanks didds 😊

    Does anyone have any law references or definitions - maybe from older law books?

  5. #45

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by belladonna View Post
    Ah OK, thanks didds ��

    Does anyone have any law references or definitions - maybe from older law books?
    I think didds is quite right .... but I don't think any of that is really in the law book

  6. #46

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    I just had a very quick peek online.

    All "scoring a try" mentions is grounding the ball.

    Definitions doesnt include (certainly not under "G" section anyway!) grounding.

    I searched the whole WR site for "grounding " - nothing obvious exccept the graphic that accompanies scoring a try of a player laying on the ball in goal. I also tried a search for "pressure" - no hits at all.

    Other's searching skills may be better than mine!

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Am wasn't carrying the ball, he was chasing it down in the loose, so continuous pressure down to the ground would seem the right criterion and the try should stand.

    I thought Kolisi's rip was extremely skilful, but couldn't tell at all whether it was grounded or not - would a 5m attacking scrum for unsure grounding have been a fair call, or is that not possible with the TMO protocols? IIRC they got a dropout.

    That Kolbe escaped a red is every bit as baffling as H Watson escaping a yellow last week.

  8. #48

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by Rich_NL View Post
    Am wasn't carrying the ball, he was chasing it down in the loose, so continuous pressure down to the ground would seem the right criterion and the try should stand.

    .
    I think that would count as 'control' so if he DID have continuous pressure all the way to the ground then it would be a try .

    BUT acting as TMO I wasn't sure that he did have continuous pressure all the way down.

    So for me

    - on Saturday afternoon with no TMO and no replay, try

    - if I was TMO, I would have gone with whatever the on-field decision was stated to be, as no clear evidence to over-rule either way.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I just had a very quick peek online.

    All "scoring a try" mentions is grounding the ball.

    Definitions doesnt include (certainly not under "G" section anyway!) grounding.

    I searched the whole WR site for "grounding " - nothing obvious exccept the graphic that accompanies scoring a try of a player laying on the ball in goal. I also tried a search for "pressure" - no hits at all.

    Other's searching skills may be better than mine!

    • Law 21.1 The ball can be grounded in in-goal:
      • a. By holding it and touching the ground with it; or
      • b. By pressing down on it with a hand or hands, arm or arms, or the front of the player’s body from waist to neck.

    • 21.1.b applies. What does "pressing down on it (the ball)"? My understanding was that as long as the hand* was touching the ball and the ball was touching the ground at the same time, that was grounding. But reading the law afresh, this isn't necessarily "pressing down".
    • *Would the try have been awarded had the simultaneous touch down happened with the arm or front of the body to one side of the ball?
    • Nigel Owens seemed to get very exercised because the ball rolled up from Am's hands onto his wrists. As far as I could tell, the ball was in contact (with Am's hands or wrists) throughout (so no knock-on) and since you can score with your arm, why is that an issue?

  10. #50

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    Default Re: Springboks v Lions

    holding it, is probably a tougher test than having control.

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