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Thread: 50/22 from a FK

      
  1. #61

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    simpler than that - red pass back into own half, knock on, scrum, FK to red

    Not sure about justly/unjustly though, I don't think there is an underlying logic here, else they wouldn't make mistakes, and we'd all be able to agree on what they meant
    I am having a hard time imagining a scrum to Blue, where Blue hadn't touched the ball, and Red was awarded a FK.

  2. #62

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    I am having a hard time imagining a scrum to Blue, where Blue hadn't touched the ball, and Red was awarded a FK.
    red 9 (in blue half) passes to red 10 (in his own half)
    red 10 knocks on
    scrum blue
    blue early engages
    FK to red

    red 8 sees some space and kicks the FK into the blue 22 where it bounces into touch

    Red throw in at lineout

  3. #63

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    At last night's referees meeting the law changes were explained by a Level 6 referee who had had the full RFU briefing.

    I asked: "Scrum just iust in Red's half. The referee awards a FK to Red. Can a 50/22 be used?"

    Answer: No. There must be a phase of play first.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #64
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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Thanks OB

  5. #65

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    red 9 (in blue half) passes to red 10 (in his own half)
    red 10 knocks on
    scrum blue
    blue early engages
    FK to red

    red 8 sees some space and kicks the FK into the blue 22 where it bounces into touch

    Red throw in at lineout
    In this scenario did Blue touch the ball? If they were awarded a scrum, wouldn't the scrum half have the ball in their hand, thus touching it?

  6. #66

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    At last night's referees meeting the law changes were explained by a Level 6 referee who had had the full RFU briefing.

    I asked: "Scrum just iust in Red's half. The referee awards a FK to Red. Can a 50/22 be used?"

    Answer: No. There must be a phase of play first.
    But that seems to be incorrect, see Patz and Balones above
    The plot thickens

    chbg .. am I overcomplicating, or is it actually the case that no one knows for sure and WR need to issue a clarification

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    In this scenario did Blue touch the ball? If they were awarded a scrum, wouldn't the scrum half have the ball in their hand, thus touching it?
    Does touching it when it is dead count ?

  7. #67

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    At last night's referees meeting the law changes were explained by a Level 6 referee who had had the full RFU briefing.

    I asked: "Scrum just iust in Red's half. The referee awards a FK to Red. Can a 50/22 be used?"

    Answer: No. There must be a phase of play first.

    Which just proves that anyone get it wrong: the RFU Clarifications include:

    RFU "Would the ball from a scrum or lineout with a throw in on the half-way line qualify for a 50:22, whichever side wins the ball?"

    WR; "It would depend where the ball emerged from the set piece. If it were in the half of the team winning the ball, then 50:22 allowable. If they had pushed their opponents beyond the halfway before it emerged and then passed it back to within their own half, then 50:22 is not allowable."

    Not a single mention of "a phase of play". Some attempted simplifications just serve to confuse people. Just use the Law wording + grammar clarification:

    "Either the team did not take the ball into their half, or [if it did] a tackle, ruck or maul took place within the half, or an opponent touched the ball within the half. This variation does not apply at a kick-off or any type of restart kick."

    The WR explanation also demonstrates that the halfway line is included in both halves of the field of play!

    BTW - I don't put it past WR to change their mind (again) at some stage!
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  8. #68

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post

    The only situation I can think of where a team could carry/pass into their own half and unjustly gain the throw in at a 50/22 would be:

    Red carried/passed into their half, there is a freak accident, inadvertent whistle, or dog runs on the pitch, no T/R/M or Blue touching the ball, scrum awarded to Red, Blue engage early, or otherwise violate 19.12.a-d, Red are awarded a FK, 50/22 is on?
    the point being there though that whilst the scrum might be "accidental" the pushing early at a scrum isnt, and has no bearing on what brought about the scrum etc.

    ???????????

  9. #69

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    simpler than that - red pass back into own half, knock on, scrum, FK to red

    Not sure about justly/unjustly though, I don't think there is an underlying logic here, else they wouldn't make mistakes, and we'd all be able to agree on what they meant
    and again, the FK isnt becausie of a whoopsy scrum, its becasue of a FK offense at said scrum.

    This is no different frrom red in blue 22, red knock on, blue do summat daft at the scrum, PK red, 3 points to red - for knocking on. But nobody suggests that is somehow wrong because reds 3 points came from their own silly mistake


    didds
    Last edited by didds; 18-08-21 at 19:08.

  10. #70

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    red 9 (in blue half) passes to red 10 (in his own half)
    red 10 knocks on
    scrum blue
    blue early engages
    FK to red

    red 8 sees some space and kicks the FK into the blue 22 where it bounces into touch

    Red throw in at lineout
    If this scenario occurred over the 22 rather than halfway line, would you allow the FK to go directly into touch for a gain in ground?




    The Law wording is the same.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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