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Thread: 50/22 from a FK

      
  1. #71

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by thepercy View Post
    In this scenario did Blue touch the ball? If they were awarded a scrum, wouldn't the scrum half have the ball in their hand, thus touching it?
    but the ball isnt live.... is that important ?

    how about

    Red kick off
    caught be red player.
    Blue high tackle on red/offisde at maul/summat
    PK red.
    red kick to touch
    gain throw.
    only red players touch ball.
    blue give away a FK (numbers?) without ever touching the ball.

    this is esoteric stuff mind....

  2. #72

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    If this scenario occurred over the 22 rather than halfway line, would you allow the FK to go directly into touch for a gain in ground?




    The Law wording is the same.
    Yes I would, following same logic
    But OB reports that my logic is wrong
    Altho other posts suggest it is right

    Not sure what you are getting at ?

    What would you give ?
    Last edited by crossref; 18-08-21 at 21:08.

  3. #73

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    At last night's referees meeting the law changes were explained by a Level 6 referee who had had the full RFU briefing.

    I asked: "Scrum just iust in Red's half. The referee awards a FK to Red. Can a 50/22 be used?"

    Answer: No. There must be a phase of play first.
    Troubling situation. All I can say is that after the first official RFU National League briefing that is when further WR and RFU guidance/clarifications came out. Plus the information from MP/RFU via emails etc. It should be noted that the GLT page on the WR website has not been updated but the links to the laws/app has been updated. I have spoken to a couple of referees that attended the South National League RFU briefing and one happens to be our training officer and he supports the position I put forward.
    Like the army? Obey the last order that you personally hear! More to come I think.

  4. #74

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    At last night's referees meeting the law changes were explained by a Level 6 referee who had had the full RFU briefing.

    I asked: "Scrum just iust in Red's half. The referee awards a FK to Red. Can a 50/22 be used?"

    Answer: No. There must be a phase of play first.
    I see your L6 ref and Trump you my L1 ref. Who said the "phase of play" bit only applies if the ball is taken back in the half.

    In your scenario the play started in Reds half so why would you need a phase of play? That would mean that if a FK was awarded for anything in Red's half they would need a phase of play before attempting a 50/22, my understanding is that this is not the case since the RFU have said that a 50/22 can be made straight from a FK, providing it bounces in play.

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    I see your L6 ref and Trump you my L1 ref. Who said the "phase of play" bit only applies if the ball is taken back in the half.

    In your scenario the play started in Reds half so why would you need a phase of play? That would mean that if a FK was awarded for anything in Red's half they would need a phase of play before attempting a 50/22, my understanding is that this is not the case since the RFU have said that a 50/22 can be made straight from a FK, providing it bounces in play.
    anyway the new Law makes no mention of the phrase 'phase of play' - so I think this whole 'phase' thing is a red herring

    GLOBAL LAW TRIAL
    A player, in their own half, kicks the ball indirectly into touch in the opposition’s 22. Either the team did not take the ball into their half, or a tackle, ruck or maul took place within the half, or an opponent touched the ball within the half. This variation does not apply at a kick-off or any type of restart kick.
    by the Law, the answer would seem to be "no", as no tackle, ruck or maul took place
    but obviously we know the correct answer is "yes".
    Or do we?
    Last edited by crossref; 19-08-21 at 09:08.

  6. #76

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    I think I’m repeating myself but a scrum is a phase of play as per definitions. The problem is that GLT doesn’t mention a scrum in its info, but the GLT page is not ‘law’, it is only an explanation of the laws that are being trialled. The GLT webpage links to the actual law. The only query should be whether an uncompleted scrum is actually a scrum in terms of a ‘phase’. I have taken the position that it is and that it is the awarding if a scrum that creates the ‘scrum’ and not what comes after it.

  7. #77

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    I think I’m repeating myself but a scrum is a phase of play as per definitions. The problem is that GLT doesn’t mention a scrum in its info, but the GLT page is not ‘law’, it is only an explanation of the laws that are being trialled. The GLT webpage links to the actual law. The only query should be whether an uncompleted scrum is actually a scrum in terms of a ‘phase’. I have taken the position that it is and that it is the awarding if a scrum that creates the ‘scrum’ and not what comes after it.
    the law doesn't say "phase" it says "tackle, ruck or maul"

  8. #78

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    I think I’m repeating myself but a scrum is a phase of play as per definitions. The problem is that GLT doesn’t mention a scrum in its info, but the GLT page is not ‘law’, it is only an explanation of the laws that are being trialled. The GLT webpage links to the actual law. The only query should be whether an uncompleted scrum is actually a scrum in terms of a ‘phase’. I have taken the position that it is and that it is the awarding if a scrum that creates the ‘scrum’ and not what comes after it.
    But in OBs scenario the scrum was awarded in Reds half, so play is already in Reds half. No one has taken the ball back into the half so why do you need a phase of play before a 50/22 can be allowed?

    If the same scenario took place in the 22 would you allow a gain in ground?

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  9. #79

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    anyway the new Law makes no mention of the phrase 'phase of play' - so I think this whole 'phase' thing is a red herring



    by the Law, the answer would seem to be "no", as no tackle, ruck or maul took place
    but obviously we know the correct answer is "yes".
    Or do we?
    That is only a third of the Law.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  10. #80

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    Default Re: 50/22 from a FK

    Quote Originally Posted by crossref View Post
    Yes I would, following same logic
    But OB reports that my logic is wrong
    Altho other posts suggest it is right

    Not sure what you are getting at ?

    What would you give ?
    I prefer people to think through the arguments, rather than blindly following others without understanding why.

    I will treat the opportunity for 50:22 the same as I do for a 22 gain-in-ground.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

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