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Thread: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

      
  1. #81

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by SimonSmith View Post
    To quote Craig Joubert to Drew Mitchell: "I am not responsible for what this does to the game"
    no, but the game is responsible for what this does to the game
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  2. #82

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    no, but the game is responsible for what this does to the game
    THIS

    I have not heard or read of a single fan, pundit or commentator, Kiwi or otherwise, who holds referee Damon Murphy in any way responsible for wrongly red carding* Jordie Barrett. We all know who is responsible for this debacle; those who have lost touch with and made a complete and utter pig's breakfast of the game, and have set up their top referees to fail.... you can find them at 8 – 10 Lower Pembroke Street, Dublin, Ireland.

    * And yes, it was wrongly awarded, the Judiciary has made that clear, and since WR has been silent on the issue, that silence means consent, and the decision is final.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
    - Jay Windley

  3. #83

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    I showed the clip to my daughter and her husband (another former diving international) and we all agreed that rotation was largely irrelevant. Any rotation starts from your takeoff and when taking off Jordie naturally drives up with his right knee, pushing up with his left leg. As he catches the ball he is leaning back slightly and there is a more or less straight line through his shoulder, hips and legs - both bent at the knee. He then sticks out his right leg while leaving his left leg dangling. There is little indication of any rotation, and this is not the right way to reduce any rotation anyway. If he hadn't contacted anyone else, he would probably have landed slightly off balance on his left foot. If he had just kept his right foot down he would probably have crashed into Koroibete but with less risk of harm.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  4. #84

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    O
    Richard Loe on Paul Carozza (elbow to the face after the latter scored a try)
    Michael Brial on Frank Bunce (a flurry of 9 punches)
    David Attoub on Steve Ferris (a vicious eye gouge that got him a 70-week suspension)
    Johan Le Roux on Sean Fitzpatrick (Biting his ear, 26 weeks)
    and Nepo Laulala not far behind
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #85

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    and Nepo Laulala not far behind
    True. We can't get them all.. but we could add Danny Grewcock, Bakkies Botha, Scott Sio, Troy Flavell, Corne Krige, James Dalton, Sekope Kepu etc....
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  6. #86
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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    OB - Yes this in absolute spades. There's no reason to lift his foot up the way he did, other than to discourage an incoming tackle when he landed. Perhaps that's a bit cynical on my part, but like you said, the rotation was irrelevant. I'm a ref that will specifically look to reduce a sanction (card, report) as I have the attitude "no-one goes out to deliberately injure an opponent" and I don't want to spoil someone's hobby that they love doing. But you do have to look at this incident. He was perfectly well balanced and under control. Like OB and myself has advised, he may have landed a bit off balance but would've been fine (until the tackle).

  7. #87

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Arabcheif View Post
    There's no reason to lift his foot up the way he did, other than to discourage an incoming tackle when he landed.... the rotation was irrelevant.
    Hmm, that is not what I see



    If that is not his body rotating backwards, then explain what you see here?

    If rotation is irrelevant, and he doesn't put his leg out, what else would you expect him to do to avoid landing on his back?
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  8. #88

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    Hmm, that is not what I see



    If that is not his body rotating backwards, then explain what you see here?

    If rotation is irrelevant, and he doesn't put his leg out, what else would you expect him to do to avoid landing on his back?
    A diver/trampolinist/gymnast tucks for fast rotation and straightens out to slow it down. Jordie is never in a tucked position. In straightening out you need to use both legs, not just one.

    If he has any rotation it is a very small reverse spin, and he cannot change the direction of the spin once he has taken off.

    My expert witnesses (both rugby enthusiasts as well) are adamant that sticking out his right leg serves no useful purpose - to obtain any useful effect you need to use both legs together.
    He trudg’d along unknowing what he sought,
    And whistled as he went, for want of thought.
    The Referee by John Dryden

  9. #89

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    A diver/trampolinist/gymnast tucks for fast rotation and straightens out to slow it down. Jordie is never in a tucked position. In straightening out you need to use both legs, not just one.

    My expert witnesses (both rugby enthusiasts as well) are adamant that sticking out his right leg serves no useful purpose - to obtain any useful effect you need to use both legs together.
    Sorry, but the highlighted parts are pure rubbish. That might be what divers actually do, but that does not mean it is the only way to do it. They are going for symmetry and artistic style - sticking one leg out would look ugly, and they don't have a hard landing to deal with at the end.

    I don't care what your expert witnesses say, they are simply wrong, but lets just assume that they are correct for a moment. How then do you explain that his rotation slowed significantly when he put his leg out in the last frame of the animation before his foot made contact with Korobete's face? Magic? Divine intervention? Perhaps he momentarily warped into a parallel dimension where the Laws of Physics are not the same?

    ANY part of a rotating mass moved away from the centre of rotation will slow the rotation down - that is an irrefutable Law of Physics - L=mrv


    Quote Originally Posted by OB.. View Post
    If he has any rotation it is a very small reverse spin, and he cannot change the direction of the spin once he has taken off.
    He doesn't have to change the direction of the spin, he only has to slow it down enough that he doesn't rotate right over and land on his back, or worse. I have been through that video frame-by-frame. In the animation, these five frames are evenly spaced,and he he has rotated through about 35° in less than a second. At that rate, if unchecked he would continue to rotate until he lands on his shoulders/neck area.
    Last edited by Ian_Cook; 13-09-21 at 13:09.
    "You can Google for information, but you can't Google for understanding"
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  10. #90

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    Default Re: Bledisloe 3 - the sacrifice of the...

    I see no reason for his leg to be in a position where he strikes another player in the head. If he chooses to put his leg there, or his leg ends up there as a result of how he has jumped, he accepts the risk of a sending off if he contacts with the head of another player. I don’t care if their is intent of not, his leg is in a dangerous position to opponents, and is there purely due to his own actions. He therefore has to accept any consequences of his jump. It’s potentially dangerous, in this example was actually dangerous, and should be a RC.

    Lots of questions as to how it impacts grass roots. I don’t think it does. I referee what I see, if I see this in Sunday it’s a RC. If any sanctions committee choose to overrule my decision so be it.

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