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Thread: Blocker at a Ruck

      
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    Default Blocker at a Ruck

    Sometimes you see teams but a blocker (player not bound to the ruck) to stand in front of the kicker. SA did this several times in recent Lions tests.

    Surely that's offside?

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    The blocker would not be offside at the ruck if behind the hindmost point of the ruck, even if in front of the kicker. I think it is a problem, but it isn't offside.

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by buff View Post
    The blocker would not be offside at the ruck if behind the hindmost point of the ruck, even if in front of the kicker. I think it is a problem, but it isn't offside.
    It appears they are not always behind the 'hindmost ' and even if they are is it not obstruction?

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    It appears they are not always behind the 'hindmost ' and even if they are is it not obstruction?
    the law says this:

    A player must not intentionally prevent an opponent from tackling or attempting to tackle the ball-carrier.


    The question then is: is a stationery player who is onside entitled to hold his ground?
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    It appears they are not always behind the 'hindmost ' and even if they are is it not obstruction?
    If the blockers are not behind the hindmost point of the ruck they are offside. Their actions are almost always material in this situation, so they should be penalized. I think it at least violates the spirit of the law on obstruction, but the blocking on rucks and running blocking lines 10 meters or so up from the catcher are now accepted.

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by breako View Post
    Sometimes you see teams but a blocker (player not bound to the ruck) to stand in front of the kicker. SA did this several times in recent Lions tests.

    Surely that's offside?

    If they are in front of the hindmost point of the ruck, then they are offside at the ruck (Law 15.4)


    If onside at the ruck, but ahead of the kicker, they are technically offside in open play, but not penalised unless they interfere with play (Law 10.1, Law 10.4a), move forward towards the ball (Law 10.4b) or infringe the 10m law (Law 10.4c)
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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    If onside at the ruck, but ahead of the kicker, they are technically offside in open play, but not penalised unless they interfere with play (Law 10.1, Law 10.4a)...
    so if remaining stationary, but preventing direct access for a tackle... is that not interfering with play?

    I am mindful of the concept that players have to be "somewhere", and that of course at elite levels such trivial, meaningless actions are not penalised </sarcasm> ... but the question alwys remains "if it is trivial and meaningless, why do these players stand in these positions constantly?"

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    so if remaining stationary, but preventing direct access for a tackle... is that not interfering with play?

    I am mindful of the concept that players have to be "somewhere", and that of course at elite levels such trivial, meaningless actions are not penalised </sarcasm> ... but the question alwys remains "if it is trivial and meaningless, why do these players stand in these positions constantly?"

    The initial conditions are

    • There is a ruck/maul and the ball is in it,
    • The "blocker" is standing where he is, legally onside at the ruck/maul
    • The players in the ruck/maul area are legally participating in that phase
    • The scrum-half is behind the ruck/maul

    No opposing players can advance while the ball is still in the ruck/maul. Now the ball comes out or is taken out and the ruck/maul is over.

    If a member of the opposing team tries to get to the scrum-half and runs into the blocker, tough. The blocker does not have evaporate into thin air or to get out of his way. However, if the opposing player tries to run around the blocker, and the blocker moves to prevent him, then that is obstruction.

    If you argue that the blocker is still obstructing even if he does not move, that you must also argue that all the players in a scrum, ruck or maul are obstructing the moment a ball comes out.
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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian_Cook View Post
    The initial conditions are

    • There is a ruck/maul and the ball is in it,
    • The "blocker" is standing where he is, legally onside at the ruck/maul
    • The players in the ruck/maul area are legally participating in that phase
    • The scrum-half is behind the ruck/maul

    No opposing players can advance while the ball is still in the ruck/maul. Now the ball comes out or is taken out and the ruck/maul is over.

    If a member of the opposing team tries to get to the scrum-half and runs into the blocker, tough. The blocker does not have evaporate into thin air or to get out of his way. However, if the opposing player tries to run around the blocker, and the blocker moves to prevent him, then that is obstruction.

    If you argue that the blocker is still obstructing even if he does not move, that you must also argue that all the players in a scrum, ruck or maul are obstructing the moment a ball comes out.
    Waffle!

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    Default Re: Blocker at a Ruck

    Quote Originally Posted by Decorily View Post
    Waffle!
    Would you like that with jam, honey or golden syrup, and with cream or without?

    You obviously think something I have said is incorrect, so please point out that part.
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