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Thread: Line out maul

      
  1. #1

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    Default Line out maul

    What am I missing?

    Line out to blue. Red don’t engage. Blue bring the ball down and form their mail. This would happen immediately. Ball at the front.

    Under the new one person latched law, I assume they must either delatch to one person prior to a tackler engaging or run the risk of being penalised?

    Doesn’t this negate the maul from the line out ?

  2. #2

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    There has been some discussion elsewhere that it does not apply after a line-out. The Law definition of a Flying Wedge states, in the usual WR form: An illegal type of attack, which usually happens near the goal line, either from a penalty or free-kick or in open play. Team-mates are latched on each side of the ball-carrier in a wedge formation before engaging the opposition. Often one or more of these team-mates is in front of the ball-carrier.

    The get-out clause appears to be "either from a penalty or free-kick or in open play". Perhaps also in the example you cite, it is the opposition who engage them?

    I'm not going to worry about it at my level until I am told to.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  3. #3

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    Quote Originally Posted by lawsons View Post
    What am I missing?

    Line out to blue. Red don’t engage. Blue bring the ball down and form their mail. This would happen immediately. Ball at the front.

    Under the new one person latched law, I assume they must either delatch to one person prior to a tackler engaging or run the risk of being penalised?

    Doesn’t this negate the maul from the line out ?
    No because as a referee you will immediately shout ‘use it’ or blow for a scrum for accidental offside. For a ‘latch’ situation you would be lijely to penalise after contact has been made. (Not ideal I admit.)

  4. #4

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Balones View Post
    No because as a referee you will immediately shout ‘use it’ or blow for a scrum for accidental offside.
    OP says ball at front
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  5. #5

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    I see it that the ball catcher with 2, probably more people attached starts to rumble forward. A meter later the line out is over and the tackle comes in. Penalty to defending side. Itll be down to when I decide the line out is over and how long I give them to detach because the tackler will be right there and only has to notionally show a tackle for the offence to occur.

  6. #6
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    I would suggest looking at the intentions of the flying wedge / pre-latching law trials to help, they are around safety in avoiding the combined force of multiple latched players impacting a single tackler, which is a situation that doesn’t exist in a line out, mostly down to distance. So it’s not a scenario I anticipate seeing or would look to penalise.

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    I would suggest looking at the intentions of the flying wedge / pre-latching law trials to help, they are around safety in avoiding the combined force of multiple latched players impacting a single tackler, which is a situation that doesn’t exist in a line out, mostly down to distance. So it’s not a scenario I anticipate seeing or would look to penalise.
    I’m not sure we should be interpreting why a law was brought into play in terms of how to referee it. This scenario would breach new laws on a flying wedge/pre bound players, so if they move down the pitch with players bound on either side of the BC, even with the ball at the front, this is against the laws and I will penalise with a penalty.

  8. #8
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Zebra1922 View Post
    I’m not sure we should be interpreting why a law was brought into play in terms of how to referee it. This scenario would breach new laws on a flying wedge/pre bound players, so if they move down the pitch with players bound on either side of the BC, even with the ball at the front, this is against the laws and I will penalise with a penalty.
    Why not?, they specifically publish what the aim of the trial is and what they're trying to achieve, so that information should help us manage the game in terms of both upholding the trial laws in the intended scenarios (Trial it, does it work etc), but trying to shoe horn it into other scenarios doesn't really help the trial, us, or the players.

    Allegedly this has already been asked and answered higher up the food chain (it's intended to be used in open play only as I suggested) but I can't point you at an authoritative answer, so I'll be reffing the line out maul / not maul / obstruction / stepping off scenarios exactly as I did before.

  9. #9

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    Quote Originally Posted by Flish View Post
    Why not?, they specifically publish what the aim of the trial is and what they're trying to achieve, so that information should help us manage the game in terms of both upholding the trial laws in the intended scenarios (Trial it, does it work etc), but trying to shoe horn it into other scenarios doesn't really help the trial, us, or the players.

    Allegedly this has already been asked and answered higher up the food chain (it's intended to be used in open play only as I suggested) but I can't point you at an authoritative answer, so I'll be reffing the line out maul / not maul / obstruction / stepping off scenarios exactly as I did before.
    Interesting as I have now been told by my society, to referee it as per the law and once the Linoout is over, ask them to detach ( if they are bound more than one) and if they don’t, with generous leeway given, penalise.

    In addition hasn’t the flying wedge definition been removed, so you can’t use that anymore to explain other laws.

    The situation of combined players vs one tackler does exist after a line out if they don’t compete, why is that safer than from a static ruck?

  10. #10
    Rugby Club Member Flish's Avatar

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    Default Re: Line out maul

    This is a very rare scenario, assuming the ball has stayed at the front (default line out maul setup means it probably hasn’t), the defending line has slid to the side to let them through (as opposed to left the line and been penalised) so we have a ‘not a maul’ with ball at the front, unapposed trundling forward? If that happened then sure, a call of use it now, or detach might be appropriate but I suspect we’ll end up with a lot of bemused players and a scrum to team going forward might be more empathetic - if it happens I’ll let you know how they react!

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