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Thread: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

      
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    Default When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    We are meeting with coaches and refs in our conference here in the USA to discuss the law changes...This is a first such gathering in gawd knows how many decades.
    From pre-meeting cards with questions from the coaches, literally know one can make sense of he difference from a maul and a flying wedge under the new laws.
    A polling of the conference refs show a general shoulder shrug..."We don't know."
    How would you explain it and advise coaching it?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Flying wedge: An illegal type of attack, which usually happens near the goal line, either from a penalty or free-kick or in open play. Team-mates are latched on each side of the ball-carrier in a wedge formation before engaging the opposition. Often one or more of these team-mates is in front of the ball-carrier.


    Maul: A phase of play consisting of a ball-carrier and at least one player from each team, bound together and on their feet.


    so a flying wedge is one team, forming up before contact. A flying wedge could become a maul, when the oppo engage (unless the referee blows the whistle first!)

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    A maul which no longer has any defenders bound is still a maul even though it may look wrong!

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Correct me if I am wrong but USA Rugby have some different and interesting definitions to the rest of the rugby world.

    There is a discussion online at the moment (USR Referees Facebook page) regarding a would be maul at the lineout where the defenders don't engage.
    So attackers try to form a maul, but the defenders step aside (legally) and don't engage to make it a maul.
    The ball is at the front.

    As I understand it the USA game management guidelines say this is not a flying wedge and the attackers can move forward without penalty.
    The defenders have to form a maul or tackle the ball carrier to stop it.

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    There is a discussion online at the moment (USR Referees Facebook page) regarding a would be maul at the lineout where the defenders don't engage.
    So attackers try to form a maul, but the defenders step aside (legally) and don't engage to make it a maul.
    The ball is at the front.

    As I understand it the USA game management guidelines say this is not a flying wedge and the attackers can move forward without penalty.
    The defenders have to form a maul or tackle the ball carrier to stop it.
    But that seems eminently sensible. Are we saying that here in RFU land (amongst others) such an action is a PK to the defnders immediately purely by nobody engaguing the catcher when he lands, ball in hand, teammates starting to bind on?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    But that seems eminently sensible. Are we saying that here in RFU land (amongst others) such an action is a PK to the defnders immediately purely by nobody engaguing the catcher when he lands, ball in hand, teammates starting to bind on?
    If the ball carrier moves forward with teammates bound to him on either side, what else would you call it?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Under the GLT's such a non-maul would have to be illegal. Only one player can be bound/latched to the ball carrier before contact.

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Welcome to our little nightmare...
    1)A wedge can happen anywhere...doesn't require defense to make it illegal
    2) A maul can happen anywhere ( doesnt require a lineout) and a maul requires binding of more than 1 person to the ball carrier, doesn't that make it a wedge then?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phil E View Post
    If the ball carrier moves forward with teammates bound to him on either side, what else would you call it?
    I thought the accepted approach was to call to the attackers to play the ball away immediatewly, and a PK if not though being fair maybe that was under FW.

    The key point here is I thought it was NOT an immediate PK but a warning ?

    Otherwise the lawmakers have effectively stopped mauling at lineouts as no defense would ever engage with the attackers.

    Meanwhile in the USA interpretation, if that wedge/phalanx/non-maul walked upfirld and not ran at what juncture does that become dangerous at such a slow pace ?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    [QUOTE=Donk93953;376461

    2) A maul can happen anywhere ( doesnt require a lineout) and a maul requires binding of more than 1 person to the ball carrier, doesn't that make it a wedge then?[/QUOTE]

    No.
    A maul requires a ball carrier plus at least one other player from each team to be bound to the ball carrier so ball carrier with teammate latched is subsequently latched by opposition player/s then a maul is formed .

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