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Thread: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

      
  1. #21
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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    Easy yellow card for the tackler, Dangerous play pulling the maul down.
    How can you pull a maul down that does not exist?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    So....two offensive men binding onto a ball carrier is a wedge.

    Why would a coach direct his players on defense to challenge a two man offensive bind?

    Whether a team attempting to form a maul is challenged or not, if that 2nd offensive player binds on, it's a wedge under the new directives.
    One offensive player binding on, defense makes contact.
    Two offensive players binding on is a penalty.
    Being too forensic...hardly, those are the directives.

  3. #23

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by ctrainor View Post
    Easy yellow card for the tackler, Dangerous play pulling the maul down.
    Hpw is a tackle below the waist eg around the knees pulling a maul down if the tackler is the sole opponenet in contact? This is the entire historical premise of a "dump" at a lineout ?

    Or has the law changed to malke that illegal too recently?

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Donk93953 View Post
    So....two offensive men binding onto a ball carrier is a wedge.

    Why would a coach direct his players on defense to challenge a two man offensive bind?

    Whether a team attempting to form a maul is challenged or not, if that 2nd offensive player binds on, it's a wedge under the new directives.
    One offensive player binding on, defense makes contact.
    Two offensive players binding on is a penalty.
    Being too forensic...hardly, those are the directives.
    well thats what Im trying to get at in some ways.

    cos if thois scenario is the case no defendeing side is EVER goling to engage until the oppo.

    and if that IS the case then the alw makers ghave just removed an atrtacking option from the game "just like that".

    Of course that may have been the intention - but thats dumbing down the game not improving it. IMO anyway.

  5. #25

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    Hpw is a tackle below the waist eg around the knees pulling a maul down if the tackler is the sole opponenet in contact? This is the entire historical premise of a "dump" at a lineout ?

    Or has the law changed to malke that illegal too recently?
    I was thinking the same, but couldn't find anything clear in Law, except Law 18.29e:
    Once the lineout has commenced, any player in the lineout may: Grasp and bring an opponent in possession of the ball to ground, provided that the player is not in the air.
    Be reasonable - do it my way.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    well thats what Im trying to get at in some ways.

    cos if thois scenario is the case no defendeing side is EVER goling to engage until the oppo.

    and if that IS the case then the alw makers ghave just removed an atrtacking option from the game "just like that".

    Of course that may have been the intention - but thats dumbing down the game not improving it. IMO anyway.
    Completely agree....

  7. #27

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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by chbg View Post
    I was thinking the same, but couldn't find anything clear in Law, except Law 18.29e:
    Once the lineout has commenced, any player in the lineout may: Grasp and bring an opponent in possession of the ball to ground, provided that the player is not in the air.
    There is a Law clarification fromn *waveshands* years back that specifically addressed this issue.
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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by didds View Post
    I thought the accepted approach was to call to the attackers to play the ball away immediatewly, and a PK if not though being fair maybe that was under FW.

    The key point here is I thought it was NOT an immediate PK but a warning ?
    I'm sure that is not correct. The referee makes a play it away call only if ball is at back. And if they don't, it's a scrum, not a PK.
    I, for one, like Roman numerals

  9. #29
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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dickie E View Post
    I'm sure that is not correct. The referee makes a play it away call only if ball is at back. And if they don't, it's a scrum, not a PK.
    That was the guidance passed on in the other thread (Phil E from memory), I was inclined to warn and give scrum if ignored too (like accidental offside when no maul). But the guidance was it’s a PK for pre latching if no maul is formed, it it’s a very unlikely scenario, ie possible PK for leaving line out, or if ball is at the back you could go with the scrum, But *if* they prelatch, and ball is at front, and no maul, and defenders slid away legally then yes, apparently it is a PK

  10. #30
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    Default Re: When is a flying wedge a maul...a maul a flying wedge....or....?

    THis ruling was given back in 2014 (not on the wR site anymore):
    IRB clarification for teams choosing not to engage at the lineout
    • if the defenders in the line out choose to not engage the line out drive by leaving the line out as a group, PK to attacking team;
    • if the defenders in the line out choose to not engage the line out drive by simply opening up a gap and creating space and not leaving the line out, the following process would be followed:

    • attackers would need to keep the ball with the front player, if they were to drive down-field (therefore play on, general play - defenders could either engage to form a maul, or tackle the ball carrier only);
    • if they had immediately passed it back to the player at the rear of the group, the referee would tell them to use it which they must do immediately...
    • if they drove forward with the ball at the back (did not release the ball), the referee would award a scrum for accidental offside rather than PK for obstruction.

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