Crusaders v Waratahs

Robert Burns

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61 mins into the game, reds kick deep blue runs back grabs the ball outside the in goal area, slides over in goal and grounds it.

Ref gives 22m.

And I think that was Craig Joubert's only error!

A well refereed game and a very tightly fought and fantastic defensive game.
 

menace


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And I think that was Craig Joubert's only error!

A well refereed game and a very tightly fought and fantastic defensive game.
Don't mean to hijack your thread Bob but sort of related.

So although a walkover for brumbies tonight I found Bryce L performance wanting! At least twice he seemed to forget about the pk advantage to brumbies he was playing in the red zone. Brumbies spread ball across field and commit handling error only to be denied advantage back at pk offence. Could see little advantage used! Did anyone notice it and think the same? Maybe I'm too generous with my pk advantage in the red zone ?
Also is it me or did Bryce seem a mile from the breakdown? Many times I saw him some 20mtrs away and rule on tackle and ruck infringements. He must have the best eyesight! Ps I was at the ground and was confused and surprised by his positioning. He did the things my assessors have kittens about when I do them!
 

Ian_Cook


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61 mins into the game, reds kick deep blue runs back grabs the ball outside the in goal area, slides over in goal and grounds it.

Ref gives 22m.

And I think that was Craig Joubert's only error!

A well refereed game and a very tightly fought and fantastic defensive game.

IMO, he made another error. The YC against Kahn Fotoali'i was a crock of shite. There was nothing wrong with that tackle, and it certainly did not warrant a YC.

Fotoali'i did not pick up or lift his opponent, he simply knocked him off his feet; the ball carrier was upended purely by the impact, nothing else. A poor decision IMO. If that were to be the standard for a YC, then there would be several per game.

Other than those two errors though, Joubert had another good game, and certainly better than Kaplan, Dickinson and B. Lawrence this weekend.
 

Robert Burns

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I thought that tackle was certainly a penalty, he did bring the players legs to the horizontal, however he certainly didn't drive the player into the ground.

However Joubert seem to make it clear that the yellow card was for not bringing the player to ground safely. It was a marginal call, I give you that.

Back to the Brumbies game Bryce had an obvious spear tackle that to me appeared the player was also driven into the ground, the player was give yellow. If joubert's was yellow, then Bryce's should have been red.

Another of Jouberts marginals was when the Waratah player came up from the ruck to intercept, he was called offside however again it was very close, he seems to start his run as soon as the 9 is in the act of passing.

but 50/50's happen all the time, and some you get, some you don't.

One other small habit I've noticed of Jouberts, when he's waiting for things he puts his hands together in front of him, as if almost forcing his whistle hand to not come up too early. Anyone else notice this? is it a coached trick or just a personal comfort?
 

dave_clark


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maybe he's seeking advice from a higher power?
 

DrSTU


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One other small habit I've noticed of Jouberts, when he's waiting for things he puts his hands together in front of him, as if almost forcing his whistle hand to not come up too early. Anyone else notice this? is it a coached trick or just a personal comfort?

Personal comfort. I tend to put my thumbs in the top of my shorts for the exact same reason.

Also, Turner dotted the ball down after it had crossed the goal line, he didn't take it over. Therefore, 22 dropout. The paint is only in goal if you watch it again.
 

Robert Burns

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No way, have a look again, he easily has possession of it in the field of play.

But no one had an issue with it in what was a well fought game.

As for thumbs in the shorts.....been practising line dancing? :rolleyes:
 

DrSTU


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No way, have a look again, he easily has possession of it in the field of play.

But no one had an issue with it in what was a well fought game.

As for thumbs in the shorts.....been practising line dancing? :rolleyes:

Look at the pitch.

Just after the ingoal is the hyundai paint.

Ball is kicked outside of the 22, at 61.11 Turner touches it for the first time (I have it on freeze frame). In the backgorund you can see the hyundai blue paint job and the dead ball line; that is the first time he touches it. Joubert is off the the left of Turner's shoulder and in the filed of play.

It's a 22.

I have wandering hands:wow:
 

chief


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IMO, he made another error. The YC against Kahn Fotoali'i was a crock of shite. There was nothing wrong with that tackle, and it certainly did not warrant a YC.

Fotoali'i did not pick up or lift his opponent, he simply knocked him off his feet; the ball carrier was upended purely by the impact, nothing else. A poor decision IMO. If that were to be the standard for a YC, then there would be several per game.

Other than those two errors though, Joubert had another good game, and certainly better than Kaplan, Dickinson and B. Lawrence this weekend.

I agree about the card, it may have been a Penalty, but no more. Dickinson's performance was pretty god damn good you know. I say that with true distinction and honesty. Joubert and Dickinson have been the best referees in this Super 14 hands down.
 

Ian_Cook


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Another of Jouberts marginals was when the Waratah player came up from the ruck to intercept, he was called offside however again it was very close, he seems to start his run as soon as the 9 is in the act of passing.

but 50/50's happen all the time, and some you get, some you don't.

Yes, Beale started his run when the SH passed, but its where he started from that was the issue. It was an AR's call (that's why Joubert's whistle wasn't immediate). Beale was never behind the hindmost foot at any time during that ruck.

On the Fotoali'i tackle, IMO that shouldn't have even been a penalty, let alone a YC. It was a good, hard copybook tackle.
 

Robert Burns

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Look at the pitch.

Just after the ingoal is the hyundai paint.

Ball is kicked outside of the 22, at 61.11 Turner touches it for the first time (I have it on freeze frame). In the backgorund you can see the hyundai blue paint job and the dead ball line; that is the first time he touches it. Joubert is off the the left of Turner's shoulder and in the filed of play.

It's a 22.

I have wandering hands:wow:
Are we on the same 22 decision?

The one I was talking about the replay was from behind the dead ball line and it's clearly picked up in FOP and then taken back over. I have it on Recorded HD though, so going to have another look now. Back in a tick to say I was right or wrong.
 

Robert Burns

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I stand correct, from the camera angle looks likes he's grabbed in the FOP, but it's actually in goal and the line I can see is the dead ball line. :Zip:

Bloody TV Angles!!!! :mad:

Well done Stu! :clap:
 

Ian_Cook


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Here is what Todd Blackadder had to say aboout Fotoali'i's tackle...

"I thought Kahn made a great tackle - he went forward and absolutely barrelled him [Berrick Barnes] and as a defender that's everything you can ask for as a coach. He went forward, hit him hard, and drove him to the ground.

"He didn't really pick him up and he was horizontal and he wasn't lifted. To me he was parallel and only a foot off the ground, but the referees just see players being lifted and they don't get the luxury of the footage we do,'' Blackadder said.

"I know player safety is paramount, but within the game of rugby it is going to get physical and these things are going to happen. But you could tell from the footage there was no malicious intent and it was just a good tackle.''
He would be the last person I would expect to question a referee's decision, and since the Crusaders won, he cannot be accused of being a whinging loser blaming the ref.

Rugby is not a game for soft-cocks!
 

chief


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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL6odia49y8

Well, can I just say that, that is not offside, as the halfback had the ball in his hands, therefore ball was out, and therefore that should have been 7 points. Reffing decisions could have gone both ways, I think the try at the end is debatable, I need to have a further look at that with replays, so I won't comment on that until I see more
 

Dickie E


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1. IMO he wasn't offside
2. if I had been ref I would have penalised him too because he looked offside

Funny old game, rugby
 

andyscott


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I think he was offside only by a foot but looked offside to me.

To hard to see when the ball has been lifter off the ground and therefore out, not sure its conclusive.

The officials get one look at it, and live I thought it was offside.
 

Harfish


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I was at the game in the press box and I can tell you that the guys from Sydney made no complaint about that call live at the ground, I haven't seen if they have written anything about that.

As a referee, I probably would have penalised that too as it just looked like offside at first glance.

I can also tell you Phil Waugh looked particularly unhappy about the Joubert's performance, but flatly refused to comment on his performance.
 

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Joubert and Dickinson have been the best referees in this Super 14 hands down.

Interestingly enough, these are the two referees who give the most penalties per game. Joubert gives 24.4 per game, Dickinson 22.6. The only other referee to do five games so far is Chris Pollock who gives 15.6. Joubert has also dished out the most yellow cards with 6 (actually tied with Marius Jonker)

While you can't judge referees solely on numbers, Joubert and Dickinson are miles out in front.
 

Adam


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I think the confusion may arise because there is a player (tackler?) on the ground with his foot sticking out of the ruck from the knee down. Some may deem this to be the hindmost foot, yet others may deem it to be the last foot which is supporting weight.

In this clip, I think it's marginal, but would probably have given the offside decision even though I'm not sure it was (after analysing it).
 

Ian_Cook


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Beale was most definitely offside, and here is the proof

BealeOffside.jpg


► The yellow arrow points to the hindmost Waratahs foot in the ruck (this is the leg of Waratahs No. 2 Polota-Nau, confirmed by winding back a few frames). AJCarter's suggestion that the HMF should be supporting weight is not supported in Law. The HMF is the HMF, end of story.

► I have drawn a white line, parallel to the line on the field, through the hindmost part of Polota-Nau's foot. This is the offside line.

► You can see the Crusaders SH still digging for the ball, so the ball is not out.

► The legs at the top of the screen (above the score) are those of Kurtley Beale, standing a metre offside. He never retires further back that that.

Correct call by both the AR and Joubert
 
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