Distraction

[Simon Thomas]

Check last weeks Waratahs vs Crusaders game on Youtube. Happens every week in Shute Shield (Sydney 1st grade). It is extremely common in Australian and NZ rugby.

Cultural difference with a lack of goods sportsmanship and manners. If it is prevalent then the powers that be need to eradicate it from professional and community matches IMHO.

I do not watch Southern Hemisphere rugby highlights during our summer, as we like to make the most of the little sunshine we get up here.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Not sure if its a league thing, but I see (hear) it in the majority of games here from around U14 up

When it happens in my games, first time I have a word, next I would penalise (but there has never been a next time)

TigerCraig you are an oasis of good practice in a sea of sledging and poor behaviours.

 

[TigerCraig]

TigerCraig you are an oasis of good practice in a sea of sledging and poor behaviours.

Awwww shocks

Seriously it is interesting the different culturally accepted practices between codes and I guess between nations

 

[crossref]

shouting at lineout seems particularly pointless, it just means that the throwing team have to have a huddle to communicate the call.
So despite the shouting they still know the call, and meanwhile the game is slowed down for everyone. It doesn't sem very southern hemisphere TBH.

 

[Browner]

shouting at lineout seems particularly pointless, it just means that the throwing team have to have a huddle to communicate the call.
So despite the shouting they still know the call, and meanwhile the game is slowed down for everyone. It doesn't sem very southern hemisphere TBH.

The DevAdvo in me thinks that line out 'drowning out' has equal equity value as ' a lineout call' when it comes this restart, there is nothing in law that permits one teams catchers to have prior knowledge of where the ball is going to arrive, irrespective of how widespread it is.

When did lineout call signals become vogue? .....OB ?

 

[Simon Thomas]

The DevAdvo in me thinks that line out 'drowning out' has equal equity value as ' a lineout call' when it comes this restart, there is nothing in law that permits one teams catchers to have prior knowledge of where the ball is going to arrive, irrespective of how widespread it is.

When did lineout call signals become vogue? .....OB ?

We used them in 1974 at school.

 

[OB..]

The DevAdvo in me thinks that line out 'drowning out' has equal equity value as ' a lineout call' when it comes this restart, there is nothing in law that permits one teams catchers to have prior knowledge of where the ball is going to arrive, irrespective of how widespread it is.

When did lineout call signals become vogue? .....OB ?

When I started playing club rugby in 1964 I am pretty sure we used them then.

 

[Browner]

When I started playing club rugby in 1964 I am pretty sure we used them then.

I was rather hoping that your acknowledged library of history would come up with a reference report including something like .... " the 1936 All blocks seem to have invented a coded numbering system which Indicated the location of where the ball was to be thrown in the lineout .... A rather dastardly weaze commensurate with their history of inventing cunning tricks ...."

 

[crossref]

The DevAdvo in me thinks that line out 'drowning out' has equal equity value as ' a lineout call' when it comes this restart, there is nothing in law that permits one teams catchers to have prior knowledge of where the ball is going to arrive, irrespective of how widespread it is.
?

what a load of nonsense!

 

[ChrisR]

Calling "My ball" for a high ball when intending to catch it: OK.
Calling when not intending to catch it so as to distract ops: Not OK.
Yelling "Drop it!" or screaming like a banshee: Not OK.

At a lineout non-throwing team calling out defensive signals: OK
Just yelling to drown out throwers signals: Not OK

At scrum or ruck team in possession calling "Ball out" when it's not: Not OK
Defending team calling "Ball out!" when it's not: Doh!

In open play team in possession calling for ball to misdirect ops: OK.
Defenders calling assignments or other info: OK
Defenders screaming like banshees to intimidate ops: Not OK.

 

[didds]

The DevAdvo in me thinks that line out 'drowning out' has equal equity value as ' a lineout call' when it comes this restart, there is nothing in law that permits one teams catchers to have prior knowledge of where the ball is going to arrive,

???


So what would you suggest is a workable lineout if teams are not permitted to know where the ball is to be thrown? As opposed to a total mess following a general "I'll chuck it in medium strength" ?


Should this then extend to scrummages - the hooker not being permitted to know when the s/half will put the ball in.

What about KOs & restarts - the supporting players not permitted to know where the ball will be kicked? tap penalties - total surprise as to whether the s/h tapping the ball will run, subsequently kick or pass to one of his other 14 teammates?

didds

 

[didds]

???


So what would you suggest is a workable lineout if teams are not permitted to know where the ball is to be thrown? As opposed to a total mess following a general "I'll chuck it in medium strength" ?

I'll add I do see this "chuck it in and see what happens" approach - typically in young youth lineouts. It is a total shambles. nobody can have any sense of planned attack when it revolves around basic luck to win the ball in the first place. you end up with totally "off the cuff" play leading to more issues as the breakdown becomes a mess due to lack of supporting players whio themselves have no idea what is happening.

didds

 

[Browner]

???


So what would you suggest is a workable lineout if teams are not permitted to know where the ball is to be thrown? As opposed to a total mess following a general "I'll chuck it in medium strength" ?


Should this then extend to scrummages - the hooker not being permitted to know when the s/half will put the ball in.

What about KOs & restarts - the supporting players not permitted to know where the ball will be kicked? tap penalties - total surprise as to whether the s/h tapping the ball will run, subsequently kick or pass to one of his other 14 teammates?

didds

I favour the concept that at all restarts, both sides have equal forewarning of the ball arriving.

Restart ,......................................................................... Advantage =
Scrums - ball arrives, then contest for possession........ ( feeding side already has advantage of set up )
Lineout - ball is thrown , then contest for possession....... ( thrower unilaterally decides who to throw it at)
Kick offs - Everyone uses their eyes equally ..................... ( kicker unilaterally decides on the tactic/location of the land )

Tap penalties .....n/a ...all advantages to the side that's been offended against.
Open play ..... N/a .....it isn't a restart.

 

[SimonSmith]

The thrower may know who to throw it at, but if the supposed receiver doesn't know, then the thrower's knowledge is faff-all good.

if a team puts the ball out, they hand control of the ball to the opposition. Included in that is the fact that you don't deserve an equal shot at the ball.

 

[crossref]

browner you haven't really thought through the practicality of banning line out calls! How exactly would you go about preventing the catchers and the thrower communicating where the throw will be, somehow.

Or would you like the referee to throw it?

 

[Browner]

browner you haven't really thought through the practicality of banning line out calls! How exactly would you go about preventing the catchers and the thrower communicating where the throw will be, somehow.

Or would you like the referee to throw it?

Ha ha, no, thanks crossref I'm only there to referee a set of laws fairly.

' drowning out ' ( or the opposition verbalising their own set of numbers/names designed to crack/dsrupt the throwing teams ' code' has equal law status as 'advance notice' signalling, either could be considered unsporting, depending on your personal barometer.

One of RU USPs is contested restarts, the further you move away from that the further you head toward that other code. .... Booooo get my crucifix out.

Its not something to get bent out of shape over, I deliberately said " in concept"

 

[Browner]

- - - Updated - - -

. The thrower may know who to throw it at, but if the supposed receiver doesn't know, then the thrower's knowledge is faff-all good.

This sounds more fun than pseudo ' gteed possession at the LO restart" which is the way the game is heading gradually .....

As soon as we get to 95- 100% gteed possession then the ' lets dispense with LO's & hava free pass' brigade will crawl out & to clear their throat to voice such change

 

[viper492]

I also don't like when at a penalty kick for touch the offending team start yelling "NOT OUT, NOT OUT !!"

I assume when you say that you mean repeatedly shouting it for a long period of time? Having played for a while and now having refereed for several years my opinion on this is that it is acceptable as long as it's not as a player is physically receiving the ball. Before that point I see the merit as an attacking side in making sure all of my team knows that the penalty kick/kick aimed for touch isn't going out. If you're dumb enough to be screaming to distract an opposing player as they're attempting to catch the ball you will be penalised for that.

And just to the OP - if a team is making a lot of noise for absolutely no reason they're going to get told not to do it and if they continue they'll get penalised under 10.4(m). It isn't something I've noticed as prevalent at up to an U16 level but that's not to say it isn't consistently occurring at higher levels her in Australia (as TigerCraig mentioned it is).

' drowning out ' has equal law status as 'advance notice' signalling, either could be considered unsporting, depending on your personal barometer.

One of RU USPs is contested restarts, the further you move away from that the further you head toward that other code. .... Booooo get my crucifix out.

Browner while I agree that contested restarts are key (and apologies in advance if I've missed something else you've said) I feel that the side attacking needs to have some sort of inherent advantage in order to prevent the defending side from simply kicking the ball into touch 5m out from the opposition line whenever they feel threatened because they know it'll be a 50/50 chance of winning the ball back. I wouldn't kick for touch on a penalty as a player if I knew I'd gain 20-30m and have a 50/50 at the ball, I'd take the tap (although maybe that would be good for running rugby? even though, as I just said, that I reckon it would be a tactic to just kick for opposition corners to get that 50/50 chance...)

 

[viper492]

Above^^^^

 

[Browner]

Not in my matches either the ones I have refereed or the ones I watch as a Match Observer.

Any silly shouting, dummy calls etc are quickly "discouraged".

Simon,
At a line out the Throwers team call Indigo 2-7-9-5-D-R as part of their suite of attacking lineout manouvers
At the same time their opposition call. Aqua 3-8-5-R-D-2 as part of their suite of defending lineout counter manouvers

Why shouldn't the defenders have the equal ability to counter-organise? If this distracts the catcher .... Then that's unlucky.
?