Is it material ...

[chrismtl]

I've only had 1 defensive team complain about me not telling them about a team putting in fewer numbers. The rest of the teams have all managed to count up to 7. Interestingly enough that team was a Welsh U18 (school) touring side. I told them that at that age in private school they should be able to count to 5. The team they were playing had used 5 man lineouts all game and had run at least 3-4 of them before hand with no defensive number issues. The Welsh team couldn't understand how they got a FK awarded against them when they put 7 in...

 

[TigerCraig]

It happens a lot here but we don't have the gentlemanly protocol of declaring numbers like is done in England. I had one team use a call of "all in" then put in 6 as a ploy.

Agree - I have never had a team declare how many they have

 

[Dickie E]

I've only had 1 defensive team complain about me not telling them about a team putting in fewer numbers.... Interestingly enough that team was a Welsh U18 (school) touring side.

As I said before, they will be used to the convention of opponents verbally declaring numbers

 

[crossref]

sounds like southern hemisphere teams are lot more interested in winning FKs ?
And/or more interested in the possibility of winning possession with an extra man out wide (because the opponents put too many in line out)

Different thinking from their coaches?

 

[TigerCraig]

sounds like southern hemisphere teams are lot more interested in winning FKs ?
And/or more interested in the possibility of winning possession with an extra man out wide (because the opponents put too many in line out)

Different thinking from their coaches?

Not really. See very few Fks and generally it's considered advantage over as soon as the 10 gets clean ball. Its just that it's not considered to be the throwing team or the ref's business to tell people what's going on. Normally the non throwing teams 9 or sometimes 2 checks numbers and will yell "2 out" or "drop out Johnny" or suchlike.

 

[crossref]

Not really. See very few Fks and generally it's considered advantage over as soon as the 10 gets clean ball. Its just that it's not considered to be the throwing team or the ref's business to tell people what's going on. Normally the non throwing teams 9 or sometimes 2 checks numbers and will yell "2 out" or "drop out Johnny" or suchlike.

So why not shout out how many in the line?

If you *want* the other team to match numbers, its your advantage to tell them how many?

the reason NOT to tell them is because you like the idea of them having more than you. I can see only two reasons for that
- the chance of a FK
- the chance of a man extra out wide

 

[SimonSmith]

Numbers is not my responsibility.

Like Iron, I delegate. I tend to use the hooker, and I tell him that numbers is his responsibility. If the throwers go short, I ask him if he's happy. If he is, and can't count, that's not my issue.

 

[crossref]

Numbers is not my responsibility.

Like Iron, I delegate. I tend to use the hooker, and I tell him that numbers is his responsibility. If the throwers go short, I ask him if he's happy. If he is, and can't count, that's not my issue.

not sure I understand this - are you saying is that if the throwers want even numbers, then they have to wait until they get it, and if they do throw they have accepted the uneven number?

 

[Iron_Lung]

I think Simon was referring to the non-throwing hooker or front man as a means of managing the line out (both gap and numbers) for the non-throwing team. If you get them onto it early it isn't usually a problem, which can be done with a "check your numbers" or "are you happy". If the throwing team is playing games and trying to milk a free kick with their approach to the lineout I tend to call "no numbers" to put an end to it. Most of the time the forward pack will have a leader who manages this fairly well. Between their management and mine, I haven't seen a free kick for this in a long time, and even then it was just a short advantage until the ball was out in space.

 

[didds]

I'm happy with
1. Red have clean possession play on if they get back to the gainline. If Red moan a bit I just say sorry lads I missed it play on.

what do you do if the red 10 does a Gregan and deliberately knocks on/drops the ball?

didds

 

[didds]

Not really. See very few Fks and generally it's considered advantage over as soon as the 10 gets clean ball. .

I'm still missing something here.

What territorial or tactical advantage has the #10 holding the ball achieved?

all i see is posession several metres behind the gain line. And mere possession is not advantage over.


didds

 

[SimonSmith]

I think Simon was referring to the non-throwing hooker or front man as a means of managing the line out (both gap and numbers) for the non-throwing team. If you get them onto it early it isn't usually a problem, which can be done with a "check your numbers" or "are you happy". If the throwing team is playing games and trying to milk a free kick with their approach to the lineout I tend to call "no numbers" to put an end to it. Most of the time the forward pack will have a leader who manages this fairly well. Between their management and mine, I haven't seen a free kick for this in a long time, and even then it was just a short advantage until the ball was out in space.

Yes, this

 

[ddjamo]

two things:

- maybe the throwing in side wants the overlap on the outside?

- if the throwing in side throws the ball they have accepted the numbers in my games. if you don't like the numbers - don't proceed.

I have yet to see the non throwing side TRY to sneak an extra player into the LO. I tell them to blurt out the numbers if they are that concerned. there is a big difference between piss taking and catching the other side shuffling players, etc..

 

[crossref]

I think Simon was referring to the non-throwing hooker or front man as a means of managing the line out (both gap and numbers) for the non-throwing team. If you get them onto it early it isn't usually a problem, which can be done with a "check your numbers" or "are you happy". .

I still don't really get this approach -- if the non throwing hooker screws up, Simon gives a FK ?

<shrug>

 

[Womble]

from the OP, if red are running 8 attackers against 7 defenders I would take that every day of the week, fill your boots, as for the not straight, its not straight, not worried about the numbers, viewed as a coach as well, in possession or not !

 

[Dickie E]

from the OP, if red are running 8 attackers against 7 defenders I would take that every day of the week,

So what I think you are saying is if its Blue throw and Red have one too many in the lineout then that means Blue have an extra man in the backs so that is an automatic advantage that negates the numbers issue.

Interesting concept not without merit.

A bit like never giving a scrum for knock-on as the act of knocking-on is its own disadvantage?

 

[ddjamo]

So what I think you are saying is if its Blue throw and Red have one too many in the lineout then that means Blue have an extra man in the backs so that is an automatic advantage that negates the numbers issue.

Interesting concept not without merit.

A bit like never giving a scrum for knock-on as the act of knocking-on is its own disadvantage?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc

 

[Dickie E]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNCrMEOqHpc

LOL. Sorry.

You found that Fedex clip pretty damn quick. Not the first time you've needed it?

 

[TigerCraig]

all i see is posession several metres behind the gain line. And mere possession is not advantage over.


didds

The general directive we are given (and there are always exceptions of course) is that advantage is over when the team gets what they would otherwise have got.

So for a scrum or FK offence, a couple of clean passes with clean possesion does the trick.

I guess if a team came up to me before the game and said "ref our backs are really rubbish and we don't want the ball going anywhere near them so please don't play any advantage if it looks like going that way" I would go along, but its never happened.

 

[SimonSmith]

I still don't really get this approach -- if the non throwing hooker screws up, Simon gives a FK ?

<shrug>

numbers isn't my problem. If they can't do basic math and win a line out because of it! Yep. Not my problem.